I’ve asked this question before, but never gotten a satisfactory answer.
In the never ending quest to convince creationists of their wrongheadedness, it occurs to me that scientific evidence is of no value. If these people could understand the scientific principle, they wouldn’t be creationists in the first place.
Does anyone know of links, articles, books, etc. that might discuss the argument from a theological viewpoint.
Obviously, there are no theological proofs of evolution. What I am looking for are theological arguments that the Bible is not a physics, cosmology, or biology text.
In other words, I’m not so much trying to prove the theory of evolution to these people. I’m trying to convince them that they don’t have to choose between reason and religion.
First off, don’t throw phrases like “those people” around. You’ll get tuned out everytime.
Secondly, why does it matter how life/the universe/everything began? There are much more important things to worry about, like whether or not the media will keep insisting that the Cowboys are “Americas Team” when they suck so much.
Sounds to me you are looking for ways to show religious types that reconciling their faith with scientific evidence is not impossible. If I am correct, here are a few links to bolster that supposition:
[ul]
[li]Genesis Interpretation - I take this from a Christian website and it offers different Genesis interpretations.[/li][li]Evolution teaches that there are no such things as souls, that the Bible is fraudulent, and that God does not exist. - This link goes to answer that direct charge. It’s part of a large page of common Creationist arguments and replies that I get a lot of mileage out of.[/li][li]A POSSIBLE SOURCE FOR THE STORY OF NOAH’S FLOOD STORIES - This is some scientific evidence of a flood which some believe was the flood that inspired the flood myth in the Bible.[/li][li]God and Evolution - A great FAQ from the Talk Origins Archive.[/li][li]The Pope’s Message on Evolution - Here, the Pope - spiritual leader for all Roman Catholics (the largest Christian sect by far) - reaffirms that evolution does not contradict Catholicism.[/li][li]Various Interpretations of Genesis - Not as good as th first link above of a smiliar name, but mainly because this is not from a Christian source, but is another Talk Origins Archive. The info is clear and solid.[/ul][/li]Is this what you were looking for? Maybe other Dopers can offer more information of this ilk…
Yer pal,
Satan
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[sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub]
Seeing as how this forum has its limitations for an acctual debate I’ll be brief. If you are truly wishing to understand what I believe about Creation I offer you several books to read on the subject:
Evidence Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell
Science and the Bible by Henry Morris
It Couldn’t Just Happen by Lawrence Richards
These books will be very helpful in your quest for knowledge. As a side bar comment, especially for those who don’t know me, I am Satan’s brother (the member of this message board not the ruler of the underworld mind you).
I hope these books lead you to the answers you seek.
First of all, Evidence that Demands a Verdict is not about Creationism, it is an apologetic designed to get people to see how this logical person’s evidence shows that Christ is the way.
It doesn’t belong in THIS conversation (though if you wish to start a thread about it, feel free) as such, however I rinted out a great novel called The Jury Is In which refutes the entire book point-by-point. For those with shorter attention spans, please see Skepticism and McDowell’s “Proof”, which is a bit more brief.
Now, as for the other two citations, this is not the book club of the month, Steven. Please feel free to paraphrase what is in these books which convinces you that the universe is only 15,000 years old. I anxiously await this.
(Note: Don’t be too hard on the kid, folks. He is willing to listen, I think…)
Yer pal,
Satan
[sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Four months, one week, one day, 16 hours, 47 minutes and 30 seconds.
5227 cigarettes not smoked, saving $653.50.
Life saved: 2 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 35 minutes.[/sub]
"Satan is not an unattractive person."-Drain Bead
[sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub]
“Christianity and the Age of the Earth”, by Davis Young, is another good book written by a Christian supporting old earth from a geologist standpoint. “The Fourth Day” by H. van Til, is yet another, which deals more with astronomy. There is another from the philosophy department by Del Ratzsch, the title of which I forget. oh, they all happen to be profs at one of the finest liberal arts schools you’ve never heard of, my alma mater, Calvin College.
I’m with you, Saint Zero! Sheesh…“those people”. And I agree, there are more important things to worry about, but I have to say, sports is not on my short list!
I don’t have a theological argument. As such. Only my own heartfelt impression that the idea of evolution, far from reducing the wonder and beauty of the world, or the dignity of humans in it, speaks of an interconnectedness of all things, that, like God, is beyond our understanding. And is far more profound than that lovely but all too human story at the beginning of Genesis.
I used to have a list of why Creationists were heretics, with specific examples from their writings showing just which heresy they were supporting. I haven’t seen it for a while, I think I got rid of it when I decided that I did not enjoy arguing religion with people.
From what I remember, the main point was that they were idolators, worshipping a book (which no matter how inspired is still the product of the hand of Man) over the manifest evidence of Creation itself.
Ooooh! I like that one! Expresses a sentiment I’ve always felt, kind of somewhere in the back of the whole issue, but have never been able to express myself. That “those people” (by which I specifically mean staunch defenders of creationism over, rather than a metaphor for the processes of, evolution) seem to be missing the point. And that their inflexibility and literalism seems somehow very irreligious–or at least un-spiritual.
I’m not religious, but I’m much more impressed by those who can see the hand of god in evolution than by those who arrogantly insist that they’re mutually exclusive.
You know, I’m quite sure a title actually describing this thread would have resulted in more people reading it than “If I told you the subject, you’d never read the post.”
For the love of christ people, DESCRIBE THE DAMN THREADS in the titles!
Try Rocks of Ages, by Stephen Jay Gould. He’s also written a number of other books on the fundamental differences between the purviews of religion and science.
I’m sure I have more, but all my cogent points just dribbled out of my skull. I’ll post more.
I’m not sure this is true. I did some math on a block of ten topics and discovered the average response rate was about 10% (9.62%, to be precise). The response on this thread has been 4.53%. This means that nearly twice as many people have visited this thread than the average thread, presumable because they were curious about what the topic was exactly.
Entirely irrelevant and argumentative, I know, but your post set me wondering.
