If Obama wins, how can/could/will it happen?

I’m not convinced unemployment will be all that big a factor in the election. First there is the fact that a president is limited in what he can do to create jobs, and a lot of voters realize this and don’t necessarily hold it against him. Secondly, while unemployment is at 8%, that means 92% are employed, and not to denigrate Americans as a whole, but most of those aren’t going to vote against Obama just because others are out of work. Surely the high UE figure might give some voters who have jobs a reason to worry, but not enough to vote for the other guy.

Edit: Okay, that 92% figure might be a bit high, since presumably some of those have simply stopped looking for work. But I stand by the general idea of the above.

You can’t beat someone with nothing. Romney is near the Dukakis end of the charisma spectrum, only marginally more popular than diarrhea and hemorrhoids. Take a guy that you want to wash your hand after you shake his, have him run on the platform of giving more wealth to the wealthy and turning the moneyed class loose to wreak havoc on the economy and saddle him with social policies of eliminating contraception and being at war with women, and you’re not exactly setting the table for a win in November. You don’t run the four corners offense in the first half of a game that you’re trailing in- at some place you need to do more than say “I’m not Obama”. People who hate Obama already are going to vote for Romney. He’s making no attempt to appeal to anyone in the middle, especially after a primary season where he had to repeatedly apologize for being more moderate than Attila The Hun. In the end, Romney’s campaign may not prove to be as impotent as McCain’s, but he’s off to good start to equal McCain’s ineptitude.

People say this a lot, but I’m not really convinced its true. Certainly a candidate can be behind in July and still win, but I think you’d do much better then chance if you picked the guy ahead in July to win the election. Certainly in the last cycle, Obama basically established a lead in the early summer that he held the entire race (minus a couple weeks when McCain got a boost from the GOP convention + Palin).

I don’t think your right about 2000 either, (see here). Bush had a lead through the summer, it was in the early fall that the race tightened. Even then though, it was only a month or so that Gore was ahead.

Clinton was ahead for most of summer 1996. In 1992 he behind was in early summer but after Perot (temporarily) dropped out and he chose Gore in mid-July, he gained a lead that he kept more or less through to the election.

2004 is the best argument for ignoring summer polls, Kerry was tied with Bush in the summer but lost it in early Sept and never regained his place.

It’d be interesting to see this taken back over a few more elections (and I guess we’ll get another data point in the few months). But my feel is that mid-summer polling is actually a pretty decent indicator, and they actually do better then those in early fall, when conventions give boosts to candidates that evaporate before the election.

Given his other strengths and advantages (big margins among women and Latinos, incumbency, etc.), he could win despite tepid economic news: HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost

Oh, no question. I’m sure that the baseball team ahead after six innings has a better than .500 record. But that doesn’t mean that the game is over.

I will concede that Romney is a weak candidate, and that 538.com has it right with a 60-40 chance of an Obama win. However, it wouldn’t take much if Romney can come up with a strategy to connect with voters when unemployment is 8.2%. If he can do that remains to be seen.

What do you guys think will be the consequences of all of these voter disenfranchisement efforts and suppression tactics that GOP legislators are ramming through the red states? Will an absence of suppressed Democrat voters hand certain states to Romney that he otherwise would not have had?

Like I said earlier, I think that that’ll be the deciding factor in who secures the November win.

If they’re red states, I don’t think it matters much if Democratic votes are suppressed. The most significant vote-suppressing state may well be Pennsylvania, where a state legislator admitted that the rules were rigged to carry the state for Romney.

Still, what matters is the candidate. At some point Romney has to do more than stand around masturbating over every bit of bad news.

This proves my point that if you post here long enough, at some point you will agree with something that every poster contributes. :slight_smile:

How about that! Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket.

I certainly hope Obama does win but am worried. Not being in the US, I’m never immersed in the election hysteria that saturates the country every four years. Over here, the US election gets a couple of stories in the daily paper and a 10-minute mention on BBC. Presumably that hits the highlights, and what I see is worrying. It does not help that I know one Tea Partier over here who hates Obama with every particle of his soul and is loudmouthed about finding omens of his imminent election loss in even the most mundane of reports. (I avoid him as much as possible, an unpleasant character all around, but unfortunately our paths do cross more than I’d like.)

If the LIBOR scandal gets some traction in the U.S., it’ll be one more log on the fire of Wall Street irresponsibility which doesn’t sit well with the majority of voters, I’d guess. If that happens, I can see Obama capitalizing (heh!) on Romney’s association with high-level corporate interests even moreso than now.

I’ll vote Obama because the while the recovery is slow, the economy IS slowly recovering. I didn’t expect a quick bounce-back and it’s my impression that recoveries take 5-10 years anyway, so I’m not willing to fault Obama for that. I like the attempt to reform health care- it’s necessary and long overdue. I think that our economic health depends on a strong middle class, which Obama seems to understand where Romney does not. And, I think Republicans have stalled the President at every turn in an effort to win back the presidency to the harm of our country as a whole.

I won’t vote Romney because he seems to take positions based on where the wind blows at the moment, and is secretive in that he only speaks to select press outlets and hides his financial information. He seems to have very little understanding about the lives of average people. I don’t trust him to do the right thing.

Will Obama win? Yes… unless the Republicans are successful at purging voters, and so far they seem to be doing a good job of that. If that happens, I will find it difficult to vote for another Republican for a very long time.

My view is that Republicans have been claiming the god-and-country-moral-high-ground for quite some time, but are in reality the biggest cheats and liars as a group I have ever seen.

I didn’t comment before on Bricker’s “No President since World War II has won reelection with an unemployment rate above 7.4.” because, frankly, it was just too silly to waste time on. It’s exactly as meaningful as saying that every president elected in a year ending in 0 will die in office. That was true until it stopped being true. It had no predictive power any more that tossing 8 heads in a row predicts what the ninth toss will be.

Since the subject has been raised by others, though, let me throw in my two cents. The predictive power of econometrics has been examined at length by Nate Silver and it’s worth your time to go back on his blog and read those entries. (You can read the books and papers on the subject as well, but I think he does a good and fair job of laying out the arguments in readable fashion.)

The short version is that econometric predictions work until they don’t. Other things are never equal. The farther you go back the less likely you are to have good equivalent numbers. Things other than the economy occasionally become the dominant issue in elections. Third party candidacies throw the final percentages way off the curve. And the way modern elections are run are simply difficult to compare to older ones. So even if econometric formulas were perfect, the data entered into them is always fuzzy.

Yet everyone agrees that economic issues play a major role in deciding the presidency. It is an overwhelming temptation to look for economic numbers or trends that will predict how they will play out. One obvious way of doing this is to look at the indicators and find the ones with the best **postdictive **predictive ability, i.e. the ones that in past elections correlate well with the party that won. Of course if you have all the numbers in the world to play with you will find some that correlate very well. The skill - or art - lies in choosing the ones that truly matter over the ones that are just coincidence.

The next question that needs to be answered is how far back you go to look for postdictive answers. Most everyone stops before they get to Roosevelt, just as Bricker did, for the simple reason that Roosevelt won four landslides with economic numbers that would send anybody else in any other time out on his ass.

That just emphasizes that economic factors play a major role but not the entire role. Sometimes other factors will trump them. The corollary to that is not obvious. It says that the closer the election, the less predictive ability pure economic indicators will have. Nobody know what swings the last two percent of the electorate but it’s not economics because you’ve already used up all of its predictive power.

Econometric predictions have been around for several presidential elections, so we have a track record on some of them. As expected, they’re pretty good at getting close to the final percentages. The problem is when the final result is 48.4% to 47.9% getting close is no better than a coin flip - especially since the larger number went to the loser, as in 2000.

People still make these predictions. Professors want to earn tenure, bloggers need something to talk about, and an actual working predictive model would be the Higgs Boson of politics. I think even Nate Silver, who dissects these flaws in others, puts a little too much faith in them. He’s ostensibly neutral and has to fill his blog, after all. Could he have simply stated that the nominee would be Romney and then dropped the subject during the wonderfully insane days of 2011? No, he was forced to natter on through endless paragraphs of filler about the chances everybody had for what would happen in the next week. Besides all those real world events do allow for tweaking the model for future campaigns.

There’s only one thing everybody agrees upon. Basing a prediction on one economic number is supreme silliness. The quarter in my hand has exactly the same predictive ability. Both are 50/50.

Heads. I’ll claim victory in November.

You know, one other factor that came up before is that a president hasn’t been voted out of office while engaged in a war. Any exceptions anyone can think of?

How many times have incumbents run with 7.4% unemployment rates?

Well, Nixon and LBJ would presumably have lost.

Nixon ran for reelection and got 59%.

LBJ losing in '68 wasn’t a forgone conclusion either, since he was still fairly popular on non-Vietnam issues. But had he been re-elected it certainly would have been in spite of the war, not because of it.

Will there be any debates in this election? Will Romney be answering questions? If yes and yes then I believe he will lose the election. I strongly predict a Gerald Ford “Poland is not under the influence of the Soviet union” moment or moments if there is more than one debate.

Here’s another question:

Voter suppression aside, how much do you guys think that the health care SCOTUS ruling, and the impending full implementation of the law, will effect the November outcome? Mittbot is certainly going to at least partially play up the message that “I’m your last hope for stopping Obamacare;” the issue, then, is whether voters care enough about the ACA to base their ballot decisions on the law.

There will be 3 presidental and one VP debate in October:

October 3, 2012 Air Time TBD
Location: University of Denver in Denver, Colorado
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney

October 11, 2012
Vice Presidential Air Time TBD
Location: Centre College in Danville, Kentucky
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: Vice President Biden and the GOP Vice Presidential nominee

October 16, 2012 Air Time TBD
Location: Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney

October 22, 2012 Air Time TBD
Location: Lynn University in Boca Raton, Florida
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney

The majority of tickets are distributed to university students and faculty through a lottery system with the remaining tickets going to friends and families of the campaigns and the media.