If you are dark-skinned (not Black) and "look Hispanic/Latino," do you go on alert around police these days?

Sorry, didn’t know how to phrase this. No disrespect intended to anyone.

Backstory: I have a woman from Mexico who has been cleaning for me (every other week) for 14 years. I’ll call her Maria. She’s in her 60s, is a naturalized citizen, and has lived in Texas for decades. She’s dark-skinned, looks Hispanic, and speaks with an accent. (She reads and writes English quite well.) When she came last time, she told me about something weird that happened earlier in the week. A motorcycle cop pulled her over (she drives a nice, middle-aged-woman car, just as I do) and told her she was doing 30 in a 20 zone. She said to me, “I don’t think I was, but I told him, ‘Yeah, maybe I was.’” He said he was going to give her a ticket and she would have to go to court if she disputed it. He looked at her license and then said, “You know, I think I’m just going to give you a warning,” and that’s all he did and left.

My eyebrows were up into my hairline by now, and she said, “I’m going to drive back over there, because I don’t think I was speeding.” But I said, “Maria, I think he was doing you a favor. He didn’t want you to go to court.” But she looked at me quizzically. I said, “They’re picking up all kinds of Latinos and other people who ‘look foreign’ on the slightest pretext and putting them in those camps, right here in Texas. And deporting some of them, even thought they’re here legally and have done nothing wrong. You know about this, right?”

She reacted in a completely unexpected way: she turned on me and absolutely flew off the handle. If she had been holding a flamethrower she couldn’t have been more angry or ferocious. :astonished_face: She launched into a tirade–the worst anyone has ever hit me with: “No one can deport me just because I’m Mexican! I’ve never done anything wrong! I’m not a criminal! This can’t happen to me! You insult me by telling me they can deport me! You insult me!” And on and on in hat vein, until she said, “I can’t work for you any more if you’re going to insult me!”

She picked up her purse, but I was between her and the door. “Maria, you’ve known me all these years, how can you think that?” She countered with, “Well, you know me, too!” I said, “Please come over and sit down and talk to me.” She said, “I can’t talk to someone who would insult me like that!” Finally I said something I knew she would respond to, “Will you sit down and pray with me?” I know she is very religious. So we did sit and we prayed. I asked God to show her what was in my heart, that I never meant to hurt or insult her, but I was worried for her. We went along in that vein for a while and then she prayed and we both cried and hugged. And she said, “Let’s just forget it, like it never happened.” I certainly don’t plan to bring it up with her again! But looking back at the TOTALITY of the FURY she unleashed on me…it occurred to me that she has had this discussion with someone already, maybe several times. She had said all of this to someone already, someone who warned her of the peril Latino people face these days just being out and around.

I told another friend of mine this whole story. She is also Hispanic, but she doesn’t “look Hispanic.” She has light skin with freckles and light brown hair. She and her husband grew up poor on San Antonio’s West Side and did migrant farm work as children, but they both wound up with degrees and Master’s degrees (he has two) from Ivy league universities. This friend said that clearly Maria is aware of what is going on and is terrified and that was the basis for her reaction to my expressing worry for her safety.

One of the (Anglo) women here at The Home said that she was surprised–actually stunned–when another resident, an Air Force veteran, a petite woman who, yup, “looks Hispanic,” told her that when police show up for any reason (there was a fender bender in the street in front of our building last week), she is very much on edge and stays alert. She makes a point of not drawing any attention to herself.

Long way around to asking if some of y’all go on alert in crowds or situations where police are around? Do you tell your kids to be subdued around police? Here’s an article about that:


I’ve tried to tell this story using neutral, non-offensive, respectful language, and I apologize in advance if I’ve said something the wrong way or used terminology that someone finds objectionable. Talking about this stuff is like tippytoeing through a minefield anymore…

I read your OP carefully.

Whatever a persons color, anyone with a “foreign” look or accent had better be on their guard. Trump has made it open season on them.

I think with Maria she just totally misunderstood you or thought you were thinking she was ignorant. Of course she knew what’s happening.

I don’t think the cop who stopped her was necessarily thinking he’d keep her outta court. Because, unless she was disputing it it would not have happened. Around here you pay the ticket, keeps you out of court. The officer probably had his quota that day(:thinking:).

I understand the tiptoeing around certain topics with POC. In the big universe of stuff, until we can not feel like we have to always be careful we are not truly non-biased.

Lots of supposition, I don’t really know these people. So take with a grain of salt.

My advice is be yourself around her. You just caught her in worried, maybe a little afraid state of mind.

As to Maria specifically, here’s my theory:

She voted for trump and (ref the leopard-face-eating thread) is now scared that what she wished upon others is a credible risk to herself. And when that second fact is is pointed out to her, no matter how diplomatically and lovingly, the cognitive dissonance is so strong that the only way she can react is to lash out in a way that redirects away from the awful truth: she wanted what she’s getting: to be at risk of arbitrary indefinite detention in a hell camp or at best deported to someplace forever. Ideally to Mexico, but probably not.

I’m not certain I’m right, but I’ll offer good odds I am.


Switching to the general case …

Around here (greater Miami), folks with built-in tans and obvious ethnicity, accents, who speak other languages amongst their friends, etc., who are also native born US citizens or naturalized US citizens are very, very common. In many zipcodes they’re collectively the majority.

I’m no longer embedded in that culture as much as I was when my then-GF was one such. But yeah, they’re nervous. A lot. The novelty has worn off, and ICE raids are not much in the news now. So it’s a dull ache, not a sharp pain. But it’s there.

I concur, may be she didn’t go so far as voting for Trump but was generally sympathetic to the whole MAGA thing and now cognitive dissonance is killing her.

This was my immediate thought as well.

I agree with all of you. In the middle of her outburst, I actually asked her, “You aren’t a trump supporter, are you?” She didn’t answer. I can never wrap my brain around the fact that people I like and even love voted for that bastard and would again.

If that’s her way of “thanking” you for your concern, I’d have held the door open so she could leave for the last time. Anybody that naive and that out of the loop in terms of what is going on with her own people deserves what they get.

There is a large Latino population in Chicagoland and, believe me, they all know exactly what’s going on.

Even if we set politics and race aside, Maria seems to have something seriously wrong in her head to fly off the handle for no reason. It might be something akin to narcissism for someone to take something that couldn’t possibly be construed as a personal insult and make it into a personal insult.

Nope. IMO at least.

When a religious bigot is shown what happens when the real bigots turn on them, it’s a legitimately terrifying thing. Running screaming out of the room is par for that course.

My GF has a similar hyper-religious Latina housekeeper. Who’s also obviously Latina at a glance, but in her case from South America.

Yep, as a hyper-religious authoritarian personality, she voted for trump. Of course. And has her eyes screwed shut hoping like hell that Jeebus will protect her.

Clearly I hit a very hot button, a raw hot button. Yes, her reaction was way over the top. And then saying that SHE forgives ME? She should be apologizing for accusing me of insulting her, which I would NEVER do in a million years!

BUT

I don’t know what her life is like or what it has been like. I don’t know who else has discussed this with her, yelled at her, made her feel stupid–and I don’t want to know. And if she is a trump supporter, then :woman_shrugging:t4:.

In 14 years, she has never missed and she has never been late. She was an invaluable help when I moved to The Home (of course, I paid her). During COVID she lost some of her regular customers, but I kept her on even though housekeeping is provided here. She has a lot of health problems. I’m not going to add to her problems by dumping her. If she decided to quit, I’d be okay with that.

Could be that she may be scared-but-in-denial and feels you suggested she is/looks like the kind of person they’re looking for to persecute. By bringing up your concern you were inadvertently reminding her that people will look at her and see “one of those”. And it wounds her pride and her sense of the defensive walls she puts around herself, which depend heavily on it not being mentioned.

…

Thinking about it, however… would we mention to a black person in a similar situation “whoa, police often shoot black people they confront” or would we just leave it as understood by the other person from their lived experience and not our place to remind them?

Hmm, when I first read the OP I didn’t pick up on the possibility of it being a ‘leopard / face’ situation at all, like several others did. That could very well be the case, but I’ll share my first impression anyway:

It sounded from the description of the cop’s interaction:

…that the cop was trying to rattle her, sounding her out to see if she was undocumented or not fully naturalized, and therefore a candidate for something more than a simple ticket or warning. When he saw she was a legal resident after seeing the license, only then did he let her off with a warning.

So, when ThelmaLou said this:

Maybe Maria’s anger was from thinking “white people are so insulated, they hear what we go through with the police, and their impression is ‘oh, they were just trying to help’. Sure he was, just trying to help me”. It was an overreaction from the lingering stress of it, and probably not really directed directly at ThelmaLou, even if it seemed to be.

Again, just my interpretation upon first read of the OP. I could be way off base.

Yeah that’s another possibility, she may be offended by the idea that she was getting a favor.

Still, something was up if she was so upset.

What you say makes sense.

Like I said, I don’t know what her daily life is like.


Well, if over a period of months the federal government created a special masked, armed force that went around picking up Black people, deporting them, putting them in camps, separating them from their children, even shooting them…we might express worry to close friends.

I don’t even buy that any cops can tell who “looks Hispanic”; it is all down to this and the question is who shouldn’t go on alert around police:

But, as the OP said, black people aren’t getting rounded up by ICE, because even if the police dislike blacks, blacks are seen as American. Hispanic people have much more of an immigrant connotation, legal or not.

You are so kind, @ThelmaLou . It’s not easy to withstand / look past that kind of verbal abuse. I’ll bet you’re the best employer she’s ever had.

I was adopted and raised by white parents, and greww up in middle class SoCal. I don’t look entirely white and throughout most of my life peopel have unabashedly asked me what my nationality is. I always considered myself white, even though it is pretty clear bio father must be a POC of some sort. We always assumed Hispanic; turns out he’s black.

In my last several years in Floriduh, as it got redder, apparently I appeared darker. :unamused_face:

To answer the OP, in CA I’m white and in FL I’m considered a POC. Not necessarily black; I once gotten driven out of an apartment because some redneck neighbors thought I was Puerto Rican. I don’t fear the police around here, but I sure wouldn’t go anywhere near the border.

Gee, you can be controversial by just standing still and doin’ nothin’.
:wink:

Even while she was yelling at me, it didn’t feel like it was directed AT me. Hard to explain.

Always glad to hear from you, honey.
:face_blowing_a_kiss:

I’m not understanding something. If the motorcycle cop told her he was going to let her off with a warning, meaning not file a report or charge her, then why did she say she she was “going to drive back over there, because I don’t think I was speeding”? Drive back over and do what? Get him to un-warn her?

Just go back to where he said she was speeding to verify her memory-- for her own satisfaction. If you’re looking for logic, don’t.