A couple of months ago, in a fanciful thread about love potions, a discussion about love sort of started… and didn’t go anywhere.
Curious fellow that I am, though, I thought I’d see if the idea had any legs in its own thread.
“If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with.”
Can you do this? I say no. I say that love is something that comes unbidden into the heart. You can’t make yourself love someone that you don’t “naturally” love.
In Fiddler on the Roof, Golde and Teyve’s arranged marriage produces love, and would seem to argue against my point. But I’d say just the opposite: that they found love in each other, notwithstanding their arranged marriage. And another couple in Anatevka married the same 25 years might barely stand each other, even if they tried to grow to love each other. (And of course Teyve’s decision to help Tzeitel marry Motel and Hodel marry Perchik only bolsters my thought: Teyve knew love comes from the heart, not an effort of will).
Naturally, Fiddler is not the definitive authority on human relationships. But the IMHO forum clearly is.
So - what do you say? Is love something that springs up like an April day? Or can you decide to love someone, and then do it?
I vote for the April day. I don’t think I would be able to just pick someone out of a crowd and say, “I’m going to love this person”. And vice versa, as Bonnie Raitt said: “I can’t make you love me, if you won’t…”.
Well, it depends. I fall in love very easily and quickly (much to my annoyance), so if I were set up with a reasonably compatible person (and that’s what the matchmaker is getting paid for, after all), I could probably fall in love. On the other hand, “If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with” sounds a lot trickier, inasmuch as it involves falling in love with someone despite already being in love with someone else. In that case, it seems to me that resentment against “the one you’re with” for not being “the one you love” could easily overwhelm any feelings of affection. In my opinion, if you can’t be with the someone, then you should be damn careful not to fall in love with them.
What kind of love? Romantic love? Marriage love? Friend love? What is love anyway? Only when these are answered can we answer your OP.
FWIW, I don’t think the song you reference was talking about anything other than sex. So, yeah, I think it’s possible to have sex with anyone you’re with, although I admit some are way more appealing than others.
Romantic, head-over-heals-I-want-to-have-your-babies love? No, I don’t think I can feel that for everyone. I think that has some pheremone, hormonal, energetic basis that I have no control over.
But in a broader sense, I view “love” as “appreciation for one of Og’s creations” and so I do love everyone, or try to. I believe everyone has SOME admirable quality (yes, even Hitler - hell of a motivational speaker, he was) . It may take a while to find it, but it’s there, I swear. I try my best to hold love in my heart for that quality, even if the rest of the person bugs the shit out of me.
I’m no saint, mind you. It’s really hard to love some people. But I try to.
And yeah, I’m a tree-huggin’ hippie. Make of that what you will.
And if you want another song reference, from Finnian’s Rainbow:
It’s for Sharon I’m carin’
But it’s Susan I’m choosin’
Anyhoo, I belive it’s possible to have feeling for more than one person at once. You may not be as smitten with the one you’re with as much as the one you love, but if you have any sort of attraction to her, then sure, wonderful things can happen. So choose Susan. But only after exhausting all possibilities for Sharon. Otherwise you may carry regret around for a long time, and that won’t be good for any of the three of you.
(I’m assuming that in your case, Sharon and Susan do not know each other. If they do, take some advice from Poltergiest, and GET OUT.)
I have some experience with this. I’ve had a few mates that kinda just… fell into my lap. I didn’t feel anything romantic for them until the possibility was just staring me in the face and I was alone and had nothing better on the horizon.
can you decide to fall in love? in my experience, no. you can grow to care very deeply for someone as a person and a friend, you can even be very intimate with that person and have great fun and a wonderful relationship. but you can’t force butterflies into your stomach. you can’t make yourself get dizzy with delight, you can’t force the thought of them into your head with every sight and song, you can’t sculpt the desire to ensure their happiness above all things.
real love is complete euphoria when returned. the kind of love that develops over time, with self-encouragement, is what sets eyes and minds wandering in later years. it becomes boring. it’s like taking a job in a field you’re not particularly enamored of; if you’re not enthusiastic about it, how long will it take you to start resenting the obligation? still, there is something to be said for taking unexciting employment over none at all.
Stephanie Koontz’s Marriage: A History makes a fairly convincing argument that the notions of romantic love as we see them today are really only a couple of hundred years old. I think it is possible to have happy (and not so happy) marriages based on more “pragmatic” notions than love (and love is not a guarentee for happiness, most people marry for love and yet there is still a fairly high divorce rate). But it wouldn’t be possible here and now because our expectations for partnership include the idea that you will choose your partner and it will be based on love.
Its interesting to work with people from Bangalore (which so many of us do, nowadays) and see what a completely different attitude they have regarding marriage.
Romance is just that - romance. It’s not what’s going to get you through the long years you spend together.
I’ll be as honest as I can - I am not with the type of man I thought I would have ended up with years ago. Not even remotely. And our relationship didn’t start with a spark, or great passion - we started out as friends.
After 8 years we’re still pretty enduring. It’s not a long time, but it’s not a short time, either. There was a time when I was very unhappy, and wished for more…and then I thought to myself, “Self - you can either get out and go somewhere else, or stay in this relationship and make it work.” And that’s what I did. Week after week, did everything I could to make it work. And it worked.
I have every confidence that we will be able to grow old together comfortably. I know that passion fades, beauty fades, romance fades, spring becomes summer then fall, but enduring love for each other - that stays. And that must be cultivated. You don’t just get it as a gift. It doesn’t just hit you like a lightning bolt.
You can’t force it, no, but if they have good traits and you are patient and willing to compromise it will come by itself. And that’s mostly what i see - people just aren’t willing to compromise. They get into relationships and they haven’t turned around twice before passion fades, and suddenly they see someone newer, better, sexier out there, and that’s the end of it.
My Og, I sound old. HEY YOU KIDS! GET OFF THE LAWN!
For me, being “in love” with someone does not prevent me from having feelings/desires towards other people. Perhaps not as strong, but they are there on occasion. So, there’s always an element of choice in being with who I am with.
In fact, I think in some ways it’s a little more romantic to think that someone is actively choosing to be with me as opposed to being totally controlled by feelings. After all, if the feelings ever change in intensity I might be up shit creek, as they say.
So, in regards to the OP, I don’t think I could just pick anyone and make myself love her, but certainly I can have loving feelings for multiple people, but make a happy choice to remain with one person.
I think we may be talking about a couple of different things.
I absolutely agree that maintaining a relationship includes work. It’s unlikely indeed that an enduring relationship will start and continue just out of the blue, a constant revolution of running towards each other on the beach in slow motion. In real life, there’s dirty underwear and socks on the floor, snoring at night and never putting the seat down. Plus the stuff she does.
I absolutely agree, too, with your second paragraph: people take the easy way out far too often. Married or not, they decide that the bloom is off the rose, it’s just not as exciting as it used to be, and - boom - off they go to recapture that excitement. I condemn that. Staying and making things work is harder, but ultimately more rewarding.
But where I think we part company is in your dismissal of the “falling in love” aspect completely, and in your implied dismissal that passion and romance can survive years of togetherness. Yes, dirty socks on the floor doesn’t sound quite as fun as galloping across the beach at sunset on a white stallion. But I’m saying it’s possible to have both – or, if not the beach and the stallion, at least a pony in the backyard, metaphorically speaking.
I can still look up when Mrs. Bricker enters the room and get that “ohmigosh” feeling in the pit of my stomach. I can still get goosebumps when she …well, lest this turn into Penthouse Forum, let’s just say she can still give me goosebumps. That love was what started us as a couple, and although it’s matured and grown, it hasn’t lost that essential quality of out-of-control I-can’t-help-this-feeling, either.
How about the converse? Ever try to stop loving someone because you knew it was a bad idea? How well did that work?
How you feel is one thing; how you act is entirely another, and what really counts in the end. I think you can force/convince yourself to behave in certain ways and purposefully disregard your gut feelings, and eventually, those inherent feelings will fade with time, but no. I don’t think you can control how you feel about someone. I can’t imagine you’d ever feel 100% right about loving the one you’re with when the one you love is still out there. However, other people are better at reining in their gut feelings than I am, so YMMV.
I know how it feels. A few months ago, i left someone who loved me for someone i loved. Now i think i made a big mistake and am suffering from a broken heart. I am an idiot. A complete fool. Harakiri, here i come!
You can’t control love. Sure, you can focus it and shape it somewhat, and it changes, but it can’t be forced, and you can’t just make it stop because you want to. Well, I know I can’t, anyway. Which is just fine because I’m happy and don’t want to change a thing.
So, no, if I couldn’t be with the one I love, I wouldn’t be able to fake it with someone else. I just wouldn’t feel right. Which is why I’ve never understood the “rebound relationship” thing. My conscience wouldn’t let me start something that I know won’t go anywhere, and I couldn’t lead someone on.
I see two different questions in the OP, so I’ll start with the one that was asked at the end:
April day, definitely. I don’t fall in love easily or often, but when it has happened I’ve never had any control over it. I can’t talk myself into or out of love.
Now to the second question, which I see as being about the Stephen Stills lyrics:
I agree.
However, I think it’s also about unrequited love and breakups: moving on if the object of your affection is unavailable/uninterested. Don’t moon over the girl who dumped you, start noticing the one “right next to you” who’s just “waiting for something to do!”
In my experience, most people don’t realize that they’re in a “rebound relationship” until it’s ending. I’ve been the rebound-ee a few times, and I don’t think any of the guys went into it knowing that the relationship wouldn’t last. Hmm, maybe I’m giving them too much credit…
