This topic came up in irc.freenode.net#Wikipedia. Basically, a couple folks said that if congress instated the draft that they would not recognize the authority. I retorted that, based on the [social contract](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social Contract), once you no longer recognize the authority of your government you are no longer a citizen. It seems to me that even if you are not called to the draft and there is not yet someone banging on your door, that even if it is a private thing and you never told anybody, going farther than simply disagreeing in principle and failing to “recognize the authority” of your government would be a de facto renunciation of your citizenship, even it hadn’t happened on paper.
I also addressed the aspect of “involuntary slavery” and being “forced to fight in a war” by pointing out that you can register as a conscientious objector.
Is this correct? Is there a written stipulation in US law that addresses the issue?
I’ve no evidence, but I’ve heard the claim before that it’s a simple matter to reject American citizenship. But if you do this within the US you won’t get accpeted into any other country, and if you do it in another country then US authorities will quite happily ignore you.
I can’t help but think that nobody with official capacity would believe you. I seriously doubt that any judge would grant your claims of noncitizenship even a modicum of respect beyond what the court usually grants to the mentally disturbed. And the military doesn’t care what you think, you will do as they say or you will be disciplined.
You can look up various Freeman and Sovereign Citizen movements for others who have made essentially the same claims, and notice the profound lack of success they have found in courts of law.
Cecil has addressed part of this issue in various of his columns.
But the OP is mixing two things: the legal status of citizen/national/subject (depending on your political system), and the conceptual ideal of “the citizen” in a republic.
LEGALLY The United States Government will consider you a citizen, after either being born or naturalized as one, until such a time as having left the USA you formally file the paperwork to renounce US citizenship before a competent official; or until you are found, after a due proces, to have incurred in the actions that result in forfeit of citizenship (e.g. fraudulent naturalization; serving as an officer in a foreign army)
All anyone does by “unrecognizing” the legitimacy of the US government, whether in pectore or publicly, is to feel all virtuous and radical: it has no legal effect. Sure, you no longer are a full conceptual “citizen” as you are no longer being governed by your consent, but guess what, the Republic does not care.
Sorry, but according to this , renouncing your citizenship is not a matter of just objecting to some policy of your government, and refusing to follow the law. They may throw you in jail, but not out of the country.
…and part of the problem with the idea is that in practice, what we call “citizen” is really a mixture of “national”-- someone from or settled in a land and entitled to certain rights as such – and “subject” – someone owing faith and allegiance to a sovereign and in turn being owed protection. It’s not used legally to meant the person who participates fully and with informed consent in the polis. If you read the laws, very often indeed “citizenship” and “nationality” are used interchangeably.
Your correspondents, alterego, would simply become citizens in a state of rebellion. You cannot just “disrecognize” the authority of the sovereign government of the place where you are, even if you are a foreign national . Governments have inherent territorial jurisdiction, if you’re in their territory, you obey their law or rebel and face the consequences.
“Choosing not to recognize the authority of the govenment” puts me in mind of the scene in “The Stand” where a character tells Mother Abigail that he doesn’t believe in God. Her response: “That’s all right. He believes in you.”
If you ignore the government, I think we can guarantee that the government won’t ignore you.
Yes, many refugees, exiles, and displaced peoples during and after World War II were stateless for any of a variety of reasons.
Jews who were able to escape Nazi Germany, for example, were legally stateless as the Nazis rescinded their citizenship. Without legal passports and visas, therefore, there was virtually no place in the world for them to go. The major exception was Shanghai, China, which did not require visas to enter. (The international distinct there was controlled by several European governments and operated almost outside of Chinese law.)
By the time war broke out, an enclave of almost 20,000 Jews had formed in the Hongkew ghetto. Miraculously, most of them survived the war even after the Japanese took over China. They were then allowed to emigrate, mostly to the U.S., but also to Canada, Australia, and Israel.
Being legally stateless is a horrible fate and is only talked about by those who have no idea what they are letting themselves in for.
There is a story by Edward Everett Hale The Man Without a Country that tends to confirm your opinion, that all one needs to do is denounce the U.S. and he/she is no longer a citizen. At another time, I found a link that told a somewhat different story. It said that Nolan (the subject of the story) was first put on a ship because his superiors didn’t know what to do with him; he was then forgotten; and finally left aboard a ship to hide a major f**k up. I also found another link that said the whole story is pure fiction.
I do not believe that you can denounce your citizenship that easy. If you say “I won’t report if I’m called up by the draft”, that is your right under the first amendment. If you don’t show up, then you will be sent to jail under a law covering that offense. If you become a citizen of another country then you may or may not lose your citizenship. Being a citizen of any country is a reponsibility that should not that easy to renege on.
If your friend says he won’t report for the draft, can he then tell the govenment that they can’t draft him since he isn’t a citizen? I don’t think so. :dubious:
If it were a simple matter of avoiding the draft by simply stating that the government doesn’t represent you, I would guess you would be able to do the same thing when that 1040 form shows up in your mail.
I would also guess that in both cases, Uncle Sam will reject such claims and enforce the laws as they stand whether you like it or not.
