Getting insulted is not an ad hominem argument. It’s just an insult.
That would be like me saying your argument against my tattoos is an ad hominem argument because you’re laughing at me. It isn’t. You’re just stating your opinion, to which you are entitled.
Now, let’s all get back to successfully changing each other’s minds, shall we?
“You are being a prick”= attacking the person, not the argument. It’s not a logical assault on my opinion. It’s changing the topic from the merits of kanji tattoos to whether or not Operation Ripper or I are judgmental assholes. Nice attempt to change the subject, but not real solid argumentation from the pro-tattoo camp. Though logic and clear thought might not being their strong suits anyway.
My arguments against kanji and Klingon word tattoos have been articulated. They are not personal to you, and while you might not agree with them, they are not an attack on your character. If I said, “You are a stupid prick for getting such an idiotic tattoo,” that would be an ad hominem attack, unwarranted, and would make you look like as much of an ass as you claim I am. See what I mean? Others in this thread may be guilty of this, but I don’t think I am.
People make judgments all the time about the personal decisions of others that technically are none of their business. The Pit is full of such threads, complaining about the personal choices of other people. Are all these people pricks, or are they just human beings who have different opinions and want to express them in the correct place for such venting? Ever laugh at someone who did something you thought was stupid? Or shake your head at them and wonder what they were thinking? Then you too are guilty of making judgments of others. So there really is no high horse to get on here, it seems.
Nothing much; the analogy just amused me.
I agree with you that Japanese tattoos are lame. But I don’t think it’s because the wearer has no hope of understanding what the word means or having it put on accurately, and I don’t feel that people should avoid wearing marks from another culture unless they’re dedicated aficionados of that culture in full. I’m sure that if one wanted, one could easily get an accurate piece of Japanese writing of one’s choice upon oneself. I think the tattoos are lame because they’re a banal fashion choice, and also because they basically draw for their impact from silly ideas of East Asia (and its languages) being particularly mired in ancient wisdom and mysticism and and all that. Everything alreadymichigan was satirizing. (Of course, particular wearers may object that that wasn’t the idea for them at all, that they had some other reason to get short “Zennish” phrases put on them in Japanese characters, but the above is the impression I get to be the motivation in general, so that colors my view of the things for everyone.) So, yeah, in most cases, I think kanji tattoos are ridiculous. But it’s not because of the cross-cultural aspect in itself (I’d think it was just as ridiculous if a Japanese person did it with the same motivations), and there are many cases in which I could fully appreciate wearing a tattoo, or anything else, from another culture without requiring of the wearer that they be fully immersed in and educated about that culture.
I’m not saying that exactly either. It’s more of the banal trendiness that bugs me, and that a lot of the trendy people who do it really do not know much at all about the culture from which they are appropriating. It comes off as more cultural presumption, Ugly Americanism, being fascinated with that “mystical Oriental” thing, or the “wisdom of the Indians” or what have you. I know that’s not true of everyone who gets kanji tattoos, or tribal tats, and that sucks for them that their genuine sentiment is subsumed by dumb trends. But so it goes. Ask someone who named their kid Ashley because it’s been in the family for generations; they know how much it sucks when your deeply held feeling becomes just another modern cliche.
That’s not really what Miller did though. He made an argument, quoting your previous posts and making rebuttals. The insult was tagged on at the end, but his rebuttals didn’t depend on it.
See, I would classify that as an insult instead of an ad hominem argument. But then, I’m not in charge of the thread. Also, I have tattoos. Dirty nasty kanji tattoos. 
I think once something is as ingrained in the culture the way tattoos are now, it’s time to stop calling them “trendy”.
Is it OK for someone to get a tattoo in kanji if their reason is that they just think kanji is more aesthetically pleasing?
This strikes me as a reasonable position, and I’m not sure anyone really disagrees in this thread. The real question is this: if there’s something you genuinely want to do for good reasons, do you not do it simply because it is trendy? My feeling is that it is silly not to buy an ipod just because ipods are trendy. To do so is to be controlled by the trend in a way that is just as bad as the people who follow the trend without thinking.
Actually, I think it’s just the opposite…the more ingrained it is, the stronger the trend.
To me, using a language you don’t understand just because you find it asthetically pleasing is what’s silly about it.
So, tell me, do you find any impressionist or abstract artwork to be aesthetically pleasing? If so, which particular works?
Actually, Impressionism isn’t my favorite, but sure, some of them are nice.
Of course, that has nothing to do with language.
::raises hand::
I would, you don’t even have to give me a million dollars. Hell I’ll even pay the tattoo guy for his time. Like Frylock said about his wife. I got them for me. In fact, one of them even changed it’s meaning over time. When I originally got it, it was similar to a friends tattoo, I got it, becuase in college we where VERY good friends, it’s also a band logo. Later I got a Pi symbol, when I got the second one, I changed the meaning in my head about the first one. I mean, the first one will still have the symbolism it always has, it’ll still remind me of my best friend in college (who I still see on a regular basis), but now, the tattoo’s remind me of how much I loved college, both the academic and social aspects of it. I like being reminded of college, I like looking in the mirror and remembering all the late nights with friends, and as dorky as it sounds, I liked my geometry class, I enjoyed calculus.
Band logo tattoos = big mistake.
I think lots of people are going to be coming up with new meanings for their Limp Bizkit and Insane Clown Posse tattoos.
It’s people like you that made me tell the artist “Put it on my back where no one will see it.” I got it for me.
I should change what I said earlier, I didn’t change the meaning, I added to it. It started out as being about the band and a friend of mine, I simply adjusted the meaning to encompass the social aspect of college as a whole.
Made you?
This thread is really going nowhere. Some people just don’t dig tattoos. My lack of enthusiasm for them is on a sliding scale. Some are really beautiful or meaningful or well-done; I still wouldn’t do it, but I can appreciate it if you have one. Most of them are mediocre and I don’t get it; I don’t need to, but don’t expect me to get on board with it. Others make me laugh internally or shake my head.
I get it-- you’ve got a million reasons why I should like it because you do, or why I shouldn’t have an opinion at all, and I’m a jerk for having those thoughts, but it’s like appreciation for and understanding of any any other kind of art, varying by taste and personality. All the argumentation in the world from this thread isn’t going to change that. It’s not solely an intellectual matter that can be argued to any meaningful conclusion.
Although it is rather less expensive.
I thought the “assuming you are in the market for a good personal music device” was implied.
Btw, it’s commonly spelled “Choctaw” not “Chocktaw,” another reason you shouldn’t have the tatt, you don’t even know how to spell the tribe’s name, which is sorta the whole point of my OP. Screw that “adoption” BS. Here are a few links to [URL=http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/features/feature18/pushmataha.html]educate you, poser.
One letter in one post… it couldn’t just be a typo?
Besides that, I still don’t see why one needs to have some kind of deep commitment to and knowledge of a culture to be allowed to wear a symbol from it. (Though perhaps only Operation Ripper is making this claim)
I think it’s pretty crass of the OP to be posting on this board using the Roman alphabet, without any conspicuous sign that he/she is deeply aware of its rich history.
I’m in the same boat as obfusciatrist - I do have a rather large Buddhist tattoo on my body, and I did get it as a sort of asceticism-cum-mortification practice. People with tattoos know that when you get the goosebumps there’s a pronouncedly unique sensation over your tattoo. This makes me sound like a nut, but whenever I’m pondering something I theologically know I shouldn’t, my tattoo has a way of warning me. So it very really is for me, rather than for anybody else. Poo-poo my religious convictions if you like, but assuming you have to remember something for the rest of your life and a wee string around your finger won’t cut it, a permanent tattoo is a pretty good way of doing it.
Although, in school I know a woman who bought one of those life-alert bracelets (diabetes, blood type, allergic to medicines, that sort of thing), and then upon losing it had the same information tattooed onto her wrist. I guess that’s a reasonable reason to get one.