Ill kid doesn't want to inform her dad of impending surgery. Do you override her decision

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hypothetical? Certainly. Inclusive of sex, rape, violence against women, possibility of death as a story element? Well, maybe the last one. Offensive to anybody? How the hell should I know?

So here is the situation. For purposes of today’s tale, you are friend to both APRIL and AUGUST, two characters from a previous story. April is a 19-year-old college student who has recently connected with her father, August. Because both of them are new to having family, both have made some missteps, and recently they have had a major falling out. You have been carefully staying out of the situation, but as you are friends with both, you have heard both their sides, and it is your considered opinion that April is in the wrong and August is in the right. If you didn’t love her, you might tell her so and urge her to reconcile with him; but you DO love her-- too much to risk your own relationship with her, so you are staying out of it.

Today April called you because she needed a ride to the doctor. Going to her side, you immediately realized that she needed a goddamn ambulance and called 911. At the hospital, it was decided that she needed emergency surgery, surgery which she might not survive. As she was being prepped to go under the knife, you asked her if she wanted to contact August, who is pretty much her only living biological family. Still angry at him (and remember, you have already decided that her anger is unjustified), she said no. He doesn’t pay her bills; she didn’t grow up with him; she is sure she can live without him; and she thinks he doesn’t love her;

You know August well. You are certain that last one isn’t true. From your knowledge of his character, current emotional state, and most of all current physical location, you are certain that if you call him to say that his kid is undergoing surgery, he will be there in half an hour even if he has to break a date with Stormy Daniels to do so. But you also know that April’s miss guided (in your opinion) decision is exactly the one she would have made 48 hours earlier when she did not seem to be dying.

A nurse comes in to wheel April off to surgery. You are alone. August’s number is on your cell phone. Do you disregard April’s known, stated, & explicit wishes to call him? Why or why not?

2

Well since she is an adult with hopefully some level of autonomy, I fulfill her wishes and don’t inform her father.

3

Agreed. When someone tells you explicitly not to share information like that, you don’t, at least not until April’s crisis is resolved. Afterwards it becomes a little trickier.

4

  1. A 19-year-old woman is not a “kid”. A 19-year-old man is likewise not a “kid “

  2. I’m old enough that me “loving” my friends daughter to the degree you are describing was is really, really sad…pathetic even ,and get myself to therapy.

  3. Wait, he’s August’s not there because he’s with Stormy Daniels? I don’t see how him with a prostitute connects at all. Wouldn’t a meeting with the congressperson or a high-level business meeting be more urgent than a whore? Unless he Regularly frequents whores. Has August always had this sex addiction problem? Him, I might try to convince to get therapy for his unsafe sexual behavior and in the meantime keep him away from April given whatever dreadful hooker disease he may have picked up. She doesn’t need any secondary infections.

  4. Given Aprils clear wishes the only way it is ethical to contact August is if he was paying the bills so he’s not blindsided for expenses that he might not pay. Since she is not accepting any financial aid from him the answer is mind your own damn business and give the woman her goddamn agency to make a choice as an adult. If she were 10 or 11 the situation would obviously change.

By the way whatever software you’re using to type is a huge improvement over the software you used here: https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20977182&postcount=1 Whatever you used in that thread was awful . I recommend you keep using this one. It’s much better.

This post was dictated on my iPad

5

Would not contact him. It’s her decision and hers alone. Also; there is a good possibility I don’t have all the information here. There might be another very good reason she doesn’t want him there, which she hasn’t told me. People are like that.

6

Or until April dies, at which point her wishes no longer have priority. Though your friendship with August probably won’t survive THAT conversation.

Any reason y’all won’t do the simple expedient of calling August, telling him about the situation, but not telling him the name of the hospital?

7

Because she’s a grown woman and she is in charge of her life/health information. Not August and not the creepy third wheel who’s in love with a 19 year old woman. Why the holy hell would it possibly be your business to violate April’s wishes? She doesn’t want him told, that’s her choice–why do you feel you have any part in it, even remotely?

I go with the “Mind your own damn business and respect the woman’s wishes” option.

This post was dictated on my iPad

8

Wouldn’t call. Although “I” have heard both sides, my opinion does not override that of April, who as been stated is an adult. I’ts not my place to play God and decide that my decision is right and hers is wrong.

Real life is very rarely like the movies and the happy ending where April pulls through, Dad comes in and she loves “me” even more for having called him isn’t going to happen.

9

Because doing so would be worse than not calling at all? “Calling to let you know your daughter might die in surgery. Bye.”

I’ll throw a question back at you. You’re August, would you want to know that April might die with her last request being she doesn’t want you know?

10

I won’t try to address your post point by point, on account of my eyes not working well. But I will go back to what I remember.

First off, a 19year old is certainly still a kid in the mind of this late 40syear old. Male or female. I know several persons in that age group I address frequently as kid or Junior to their faces. For that matter, I have some friends in their 70s who still call ME kid to my face.

Second, I don’t see how love can be pathetic. Particularly love that knows its limits. The hypothetical you of the OP is not trying to be anything but a friend to April & August. The OP makes it explicit that the hypothetical you is not interfering in the dispute between them. So it is hard for me to see how such non-interference can be described in negative terms.

As for the dictation issue: I dictated the OP in the middle of the night when I could not sleep. iPhone & iPad dictation are rather perverse. Persons who are forced to rely on it know this much better than persons who might use it casually. And if you think it is easy to listen for every possible misinterpretation in transcription without working eyes, you simply have no idea. Particularly because the dictation software sometimes introduce is entirely and thought of homophones. Last week, four instance, it ever Denteley introduced a proper name for the word MENACE. Sometimes I use a wireless keyboard on my iPad when posting to the dope; sometimes I use voiceover on the MacBook, but that is not always practical.

The stormy Daniels thing was a joke. Just hyperbole. But I thought she was a porn star rather than a prostitute. I have not been following that particular iteration of trump madness closely because frankly the whole horrible mess depresses me and I have enough in my life to make me depressed.

But finally, as a dad and also as a adult child who does not always get a loan with my own father, I can see both sides. I wants caused my mother, ead over a decade now, great distress by not letting her know about some difficulty I was in. 30 years on, I can see that I was in the wrong to exercise my undeniable right to keep my business to myself. I hurt her when she didn’t deserve it. So I would be very tempted to inform August of April’s plight.

But probably I would not. At least, not in its entire tea. I would call him to let her know about April’s surgery but not tell him what hospital she was in. I would keep him apprised because a parent needs to know this. And since the OP is explicit that April is in the wrong, I would feel compelled to do so, even though I would be risking my friendship with her. Because my friendship with her would be less important than the father-daughter relationship, even a very brief one.

11

Oh, I don’t think that the movie happy ending is probable. Assuming that April survives the surgery, she would be furious at the hypothetical you for this regarding her wishes, probably with some justification. That is why the most I would do would be to let August know that she is Gil but not inform him of her location. I would definitely need to inform him whether she had to pull through.

12

Yes, I would want to know that my daughter was deathly ill if I were in August’s place. And the call I would make would be much more extensive than you described. I would let him know what I knew of her illness and promised to inform him as soon as she was out of surgery for good or ill. It would be a terrible waiting time for August, but I would simply need to know. And the golden rule would require me to risk my friendship with April.

13

I would not tell August, as doing so against the daughter’s wishes means presuming to know better than she does about the situation.
Since it’s unlikely I would ever be so invested in another person’s life to accumulate expert knowledge about their feelings and experiences with a 3rd party (I don’t even have such knowledge about my own family members or husband), I just can’t see doing that.

I don’t see the value in letting a parent know that their child is in critical condition while withholding the name of the hospital. It’ll be compounding the drama because they now have to deal with you dangling horrible news in front of them without providing the information they need to take immediate action, like visiting. You’ll basically be asking for both parties to strangle you.

14

Agreed. I may think she’s being a poopyhead, but that doesn’t give me permission to act like one.

15

She’s an adult, I wouldn’t call. Besides, she’s in surgery - what could he do besides sit at the hospital? At the immediate moment, her fate is in the surgeon’s hands. If she doesn’t make it out of surgery, his physical location is meaningless. If she does make it out of surgery, they have the future to try and repair their relationship.

StG

16

If I really want to tell August, and think April might not approve, I don’t ask April about it. Once she tells me not to tell August, whether unsolicited (because she knows we are friends) or solicited (because I asked her) I really shouldn’t tell August.

Unless she dies. If she dies, I DO tell August, as her wishes are no longer as important as his are. But no, I don’t ask her “who should I tell” and then completely disregard her answer. That’s a jerkish thing to do.

17

Another consideration is that April has spent the majority of her life without this man. It’s not exactly his fault, but he hasn’t really parented her or made the sacrifices that come with parenthood. He may love her as much as any father under those circumstances could love an adult child, but what does this really mean to her if he doesn’t have a track record to back any of that up? I wouldn’t blame her for not feeling any daughterly obligations to him.

18

The golden rule sucks. The platinum rule is far better: Treat someone the way they wish to be treated*. Calling August would clearly violate that rule against April.

Really,if you knew you wanted to tell August, you shouldn’t have asked her if she wanted anyone to know. That way you at least have plausible deniability that you didn’t know she wouldn’t want her dad to find out. I wouldn’t blame her for still being pissed at you, though chances she would forgive you would be a bit better, I’d think.

  • yeah yeah, jokes about people wanting all of your money or for you to blow them right now. The point is not assuming you know what they would want or that you know what would be best.
19

Yes, that was one of the possible resolutions I had in mind.

20

*I have not been instructed to assume that I am April’s only friend, so I am NOT going to assume that I am.

I have not been instructed to assume that I am the only one of her friends who knows that August is April’s father, so I’m not going to assume that I am.

With those conditions not being assumed, my answer follows:*

Nope. I do not make the call.

Why not? Because April, whom I love dearly, has explicitly stated that she does not want me to.

I DO go on Facebook, and “check in.” The check in indicates that kaylasdad99 is at Memphis Memorial Hospital with April. kaylasdad99’s mood is: “Worried.” I then text all of my friends EXCEPT August, and instruct them to check my FB status.