well, actually what I’d like to see is substantiation that the people being targeted were those (as in your OP) who ‘snuck across the borders’. seems like that’s not the case. they came here legally.
INS is notoriously slow to act on their own regulations, as we’ve seen. So, what do you propose to do w/folks who came legally, sent in their renewal forms, but the INS hasn’t processed them in due course?
And it’s not just legal immigrants. It’s MALE legal immigrants. That’s one sorry piece of bureaucracy.
Mind you, I’m not (fully) blaming the knuckleheads who came up with that. On one hand, the majority of terrorists fit a very specific profile, and INS needs to do something to (i)protect the populace and (ii)seem less ineffective after 9/11/2001. On the other, I just don’t like the idea of getting all of the proverbial “them” profiled and catalogued for future use.
Airman, I’m sure I do. If not immigrants to Ireland, Immigrants to Australia, or Immigrants to America, or Immigrants to Britain, Or Canada, or anywhere else the Irish went to, not always legally either.
you do have a point, but you are resorting to the “all immigrants are ungrateful, moaning freeloaders, and if they don’t love America they should go home!”
Your simplifying issues, Airman, and I’m sure you are better than that.
Well, the title of the CNN story I linked to is Canada turns away Pakistanis fleeing United States.
But they are being given appointments to return to Canada and be considered for asylum.
I agree, Twisty, and having been faced with the indefensible (basically, I’m being outcited and have no desire to fight all of you over something fairly inconsequential), I’m willing to state that my OP was a little hasty and off the mark a bit. Mmmm…crow.
However, it brings into focus the problems with immigration. Are we to take everyone who comes, with open arms? Should we allow illegal immigrants to stay in violation of our laws?
I think not. Let’s start over with that, OK?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/31/canada.border.closing/index.html, liked before by Kal.
Unfortunately, being treated as a refugee apparently doesn’t mean an automatic approval to cross the border, but rather an appointment to apply to asylum.
No, I don’t see him resorting to the “all immigrants” card, just the “all illegal immigrants” card. And I can kinda see his point.
Slight hijack, but within the general theme- INS is a righteous pain in the ass, period. You think it’s hard to “get legal” as a Mexican field worker? Try this on for size- my brother in law has been in this country as a student for several years, he is married to a US citizen, has established residency here, has a PhD and teaches at one of our finer universities. AND HE CAN"T GET THE INS TO MOVE ON HIS PAPERWORK!!!
I suppose I can see how someone who was tired of trying to get “legal” would settle for being illegal.
End of slight hijack. Thanks.
Teaches me to look for cites. Or maybe it teaches me to preview more often.
To the new issue:
I think, Airman, we should also differentiate between those who enter the country illegally, and those who enter the country legally, but due to bureaucratic snafus or delays, are no longer a legal resident. Should Mr Immigrant Bob be deported because of a paperwork backlog?
Guess why my friend’s visa was held up so long?
The fees changed while it was in limbo, and when they finally opened the application, she had enclosed the wrong total amount on the checks, and so apparently the entire thing was filed in the shredder.
What they really need to do is move the manpower from stupid shit like the registration program to the paperwork backlog, and move toward real reform of the INS.
I shall await a better source than, “something I remember hearing” before I continue.
Oh, and I’m certain they are doing cross checks with their registered list of ‘terrorists’ as they do this. One can only imagine the logistical nightmare that will ensue.
I suspect you don’t have all that much contact with too many Pakistani expatriates in the US, Airman. I’ve never heard them complain or bitch and moan about the States. They are amongst the hardest working, most diligent people I’ve had the pleasure of knowing. I think what they are objecting to is unfair deportation and probably intimidation.
If you think it’s easy to live in the US if you have Islamic religious beliefs, wear any Islamic clothing or headgear or have dark skin, think again.
Oh, and dual citizens are also required to register and be fingerprinted.
Sorry, I didn’t see Airman’s last post.
So, we are all in agreement that INS is a major major mess.
Ana, it’s our country, thus it’s our rules.
The Muslim countries made female servicemen dress in their traditional women’s clothing when overseas, for instance.
Also, while in Turkey I would NEVER put my feet up so as to avoid insulting them.
I’m not in agreement with the profiling stuff, and I do think that some innocents are getting the shaft, but the guest should always be in compliance with the laws of the country they are in at the moment. Right now the law is registration. For better or worse. If the government wants to do cross-checks for terrorists, that’s their right. As I said before, illegals will not register. It’s akin to driving without a license. That’s de facto proof of illegal status, and they should be deported.
What I’d like to see is the same effort for cross-checking terrorists be given to clearing innocent people so we can weed out the people who really shouldn’t be here, if that makes sense to you.
Robin just pointed out to me that you are American, Ana. Noting that you are in Ireland right now, is it safe to assume that you are complying with Irish law? Of course you are. Should we demand any less from our guests?
Airman, if the Irish government demanded that immigrants from certain countries had to submit to fingerprinting and registration, and deporting those whose papers were wrong, especially when it was a government departments inadequacy that has a good percentage of the papers wrong, I would be fighting tooth and nail to stop it. It is unfair and immoral. You are right that Illegals wont register. Is that excuse to terrorise those who do come forward, and create the situation that is happening at the moment, where legal residents of your country are fleeing in fear?
the whole situation stinks.
guests?
… ok.
So because I’m a Canadian immigrant, I’m only a GUEST here? Despite the fact that I intend to have my family and raise them here? Will you point the finger at me when the INS fucks up my paperwork for the 3rd time, Mr. Doors? Because they have already done so twice through no fault of our own. Do you want me to just up and leave my American husband for bureaucratic bullshit? Would you want MsRobyn to do so, were she in my shoes?
I may end up an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT through NO FAULT OF MY OWN. Should I keep my sob story to myself?
Excuse me if this is a bit of a touchy subject - I only worked hard for FOUR YEARS to get into this country. S’all.
Or worse yet, has shredded them!!
I know you are objecting to Airman’s blanket generalization, but you are doing so with one of your own. The other day my Pakistani cab driver was complaining (actually, in a frightening way) about the US culture and its government. Iam not trying to say that the majority do this, but some do. Many don’t, but it is out there.
He also uses half a brain.
At best.
thanks, Shayna for a graphic representation about just who these horrible ‘illegals’ may in fact be. Can you imagine the audacity of people, visiting our country legally, filling out their paperwork to remain here legally, having the nerve to complain if their paperwork isn’t completed 'cause the workers shreded them and yet they remained here illegally!!
da noive!
(how did you want your crow, Airman?)
Damn, but you are a sycophantic toady.
You have such a rigid concept of right and wrong, that you inherently always end up supporting laws no matter how wrong they are.
Oh, and it’s okay for some innocents to get the shaft as long as there is COMPLIANCE.
You are such an amazing conformist, I am quite sure that if your CO told you to jump off a bridge, you WOULD.
Goddamn Mockingbird, What crawled up your ass and died. He admitted that he was off-mark. Cut him some slack.