It occurred to me that people arrested for illegally going into another country might be offered the choice of being returned to their own countries or fighting in the war that seems to be coming in Iraq, and then becoming citizens of the country. There’s probably some laws in each country that soliders need to actually be citizens of that country, but I’m sure the courts could find a way around that. These are, after all, the same courts that have held up so many so-called First Amendment rights that people feel free to burn flags and have child porn sites online, claiming they have the right, guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.
Did you have any certain countries in mind?
No, no particular countries. To me, the key word is “illegal.” People who come here legally are certainly welcome to stay. I know that we have a lot of people crossing the Mexican border every year, many of them dying in the desert. Some are Mexicans, others are Guatmaleans (sp?), or from Honduras or other places. Illegal immigration has been a big problem in a lot of countries, though.
So, when the Border Patrol rounds up another van-load of wetbacks, they should give them a “fight in Iraq and become U.S. citizens if you survive, or be deported back to Mexico” offer?
What happens if they choose to be deported? Seems a lot less life-threatening to me. They can try the Big Fence again and again and just keep getting sent back, whereas if they go to Iraq and get shot, they’re dead.
Doesn’t sound like an acceptable risk to me.
I wouldn’t.
So you think that a group of illegal immigrants who might not know any English would be a better choice for fighting a war then our own already trained citizen soldiers?
Do you think that we don’t have enough soldiers to fight the war right now?
Why would the US want to do this?
If we enacted your policy, would an “alien” soldier’s family be able to live here? Would they become citizens if he died?
Besides this being a pretty crazy idea, what do we after the (2 week) war with Iraq is over…?
Illegal immigrants are criminals.
I dont want, or need, criminals in our military.
All illegals should be permantently deported with no chance of ever being allowed into this country again.
Susan–
You gonna take your own garbage to the dump? Are you gonna make that YMCA theyre building down the street?
Face it. There are tons of illegals in his country doing jobs most citizens dont want to do. Why do you think the government is so lax about chasing after Latin Americans? Most of them work hard, pay taxes, support their families.
One is not required to be a citizen of this country to enlist in its military.
I dont think we should allow any aliens in our military. How can an alien swear to protect and defend the constitution when he is not even a citizen?
Also, allowing aliens in our military is also not a good idea if martial law was ever declared.
Furthermore, serving in the United States armed forces, is an honor and a privedge - not a punishment.
I dont care what jobs illegal aliens do, they are criminals, and all of them should be deported.
The rest of us came here legally, we filed the right papers, we waiting in line, we obeyed the laws, and we earned our citizenship honestly. It degrades and dishonors all the rest of us who are good citizens who obeyed the law to let these criminals(illegal aliens) stay here.
Many of us are descended from people who stole–I mean, fought for–this country.
Many of the so-called “illegals” are descended from people who actually lived in this country before many of our ancestors even knew America existed!
Either way, most of us living TODAY had no control over our citizenship. I know I didn’t get to check “USA” when God was handing out mommies and daddies in heaven.
You are no more entitled to this land than the dreamy-eyed, desperate people on the other side of the border. And if you had been born in third-world poverty just a mile or so away from first-world abundance, I wonder how long it would have taken for you to become one those “criminals” you seem to hate so much.
I feel sorry for you.
Of course, if you offer citizenship or some legal immigration status to those who serve under this proposal, they’re not–for example, the Germans and Irish who came in the mid 1800s. I think there’s something ironic in the fact that many were sent to fight and die in Mexico, but I’m not sure. But those who made it back had their citizenship.
As regnad kcin points out, enforcement of immigration laws is an endeavour of convenience. As soon as you have enough native-born folk available and willing to work in all jobs currently occupied by illegal labor (including mills, farms, fast food, etc. etc.) you’ll start seeing Migra roundups again. Immigration control is a matter of higher public policy, not just stemming border flows.
But back to the OP - It’s more likely that in the case of a protracted or costly war effort in terms of human capital, the govt would open a sort of Braceros program as was the case in World War II, letting people in to cover the domestic gap in farm and industrial labor opened due to massive enlistment or conscription.
Monty - Do noncitizen veterans get military pensions and postservice social benefits regardless of their immigration and civil statuses, the same as U.S. citizens?
Monstro:
Sound like you are advocating openning the borders to whomever wants to come in. Is that correct?
Like Oliver North?
No, John Mace. But I also don’t believe in hatefully labeling innocent people as “criminals” simply because they step foot across an imaginary boundary line.
Monstro:
But seriously, though, if it is not illegal to cross the border, then you have de facto open borders. I don’t see how you can have it both ways. Weather or not you are “hateful” in labeling them criminals does not change the fact that they ARE criminals. What would you advocate we do with people who are in the country illegally? Or is it the immegration policy itself that needs to be changed? Not to open borders, as you said, then to what?
They commited a “crime”, they violated United States law.
Those who commit crimes are : “criminals”.
Is this hard to understand?
(criminals rarely make good citizens)
If they commit this crime what other crimes might they commit?
Many of them also falsify government documents, violate labor laws, health laws, evade income taxes, aid and abett other criminals, etc.
Not a very good start to “good citizenship”.
You get it.
Yes, but the OP proposes that you decriminalize entry into the US if the individual agrees to military service. Without arguing the merits of the proposal, they are not then criminals.
And again, nonenforcement of immigration laws is a matter of public policy. Someone’s got to bone them chickens and mill them carpets and pick them grapes and ring up them Big Macs and bus them tables. If and when it is in the national interest to reserve those jobs to citizens and legal immigrants, you will notice a considerable increase in enforcement.
And in some (but certainly not all) cases the presence of illegal immigrants has a positive effect on native wage levels (See DeFreitas, Borjas, Taylor, Waldinger, and many other studies).
Actually, I don’t see why we can’t have more open borders. Call me naive, but it seems like this artifical thing called “country” is responsible so much heart-ache and strife.
It isn’t illegal to cross the border, btw. I mean, will you get arrested for driving into Canada? Mexico?
Another person’s “criminal” is another person’s “American citizen.”
I don’t know. Perhaps leave them alone until they break a RULE law?
True. But just breaking a law doesn’t merit being called a “criminal” in regular-people’s speak. If I go 50 in a 35 mph zone, am I a criminal? If I drop a gum wrapper in the street, does that make me a criminal?
Technical, yes. But that doesn’t mean you’re overreacting when you call those of us guilty of these crimes “criminals”.
Read my above statement. Many of us break laws now and again. That doesn’t mean we don’t contribute positively to society and that we aren’t “good” people.
Cite?
I think the ladies who illegally clean toliets at my friends’ properties are better citizens than the lard-ass, self-entitled, ingrateful, low-class “real” Americans who I see on a daily basis.