And when illegal immigrants fail to respect property rights, they can, should, and are punished for theft, just like anyone else. But crossing a line in the sand so you can do work that someone wants to pay you for isn’t theft.
Say, if I approve of cockfighting, does that mean I have to approve of illegal immigration?
Yes.
I 100% agree with this except “change the law that makes someone a citizen by being born on American soil.” Isn’t that in the Constitution?
:rolleyes:Oh, please. If my argument hinged on the rates being greater for illegals, you’d be correct,and it would be incumbent upon me to substantiate it with a cite. BUT IT DOESN"T. If you want to muster up some manufactured outrage and peep up “cite” just for the heck of it, knock yourself out. But as far as a substantive debate goes, I’ll provide cites when they are fundamental to my position. Not for your amusement.
You’re okay with the ones who do pay their bills, right?
More okay. But not okay. No one should be here illegally. I’d love to bring someone here legally—who has been waiting on line—for every person we deport. (Assuming we deem that the the increased immigration numbers benefit us.)
Immigrants aren’t coming here to go on welfare. The last thing they want to do is sign up with some government agency. Immigrants come to America today for the same reason our ancestors came here a hundred years ago - they want a better job than they can get back home. They want to go to work and pay their bills.
I say we should let them.
Your “argument” seems to hinge on trying to make an unsupported generalization about all undocumented immigrants based on the actions of some unknown percentage of them, and then trying to weasel out of your unsupported generalization when you get called on it.
Your initial assertion was quite clearly attempting to point a contrast between illegal immigrants as a group, who according to you don’t pay their medical bills, and “everyone else” as a group. That attempt falls apart when you fail to show any evidence that illegal immigrants as a group are less likely to pay their medical bills than other people.
In fact, as my cite in an earlier post noted, the data suggests that illegal immigrants, along with other foreign-born residents, rely less on free medical care and pay more of their medical expenses out of their own pockets than “everyone else” does.
Yeah, you can still argue that we shouldn’t have to pay for medical costs for any illegal immigrants, even if we’re willing to pay for medical costs for some people who are not illegal immigrants. I don’t have a problem with that argument (although I don’t totally agree with it), but it’s not the argument you were originally making.
It’s not in the original text. However, the 14th Amendment cleared things up nicely:
There are various theories about what “subject to the jurisdiction [of the United States]” means, though. The author of the Citizenship Clause, Jacob Howard (R-MI) was a total fucking idiot, and wrote that the clause should not constitute a grant of citizenship to “foreigners”.
The Supreme Court decided in US v. Wong Kim Ark that pretty much anyone born in the US other than the children of foreign ambassadors or other diplomats, or to members of an occupying force, were citizens.
Including Asians and the rest of us darkies. Yay!
“occupying force”, eh? I can definitely see some leverage there…
And??
So it’s a crime to enter the country illegally; it’s only a civil infraction to be here illegally.
Makes sense since one could enter legally (visa) and be here illegally (overstay visa).
Could a state enact legislation to make being in the state illegally a criminal offense?
Maybe that is exactly what AZ has done. I don’t know…I haven’t read the bill…but then neither have AG Holder and the rest of the Obama administration.
Your username is most apt.
In other words, they’re idiots. I do not understand why so many people have such a problem with requiring immigrants to come in through legal means.
Because there aren’t any legal means.
Admittedly stopping all immigration, legal and illegal, is a solution for people who think the problem is “I don’t want those people in my country.”
Because, again, they feel that immigrants from Mexico are a net benefit to society, and current immigration laws and regulations are set up to make legal immigration from Mexico next to impossible.
Funny how these idiots have articulated reasons other than calling the other side idiots. Funny how not a single one has said anything about legal immigration.
What we object to is knowingly sending people back to a worse state than they are already in. And for what reason? Because some people don’t want them here. And we have to spend our limited funds to do it
No, no, it’s because it’s illegal, you say. Yes, but why is it illegal? Would you argue that if we passed a law saying all people had to murder their first born child, would you follow it? Of course not. This law, as stated earlier hurts some people. For it to be a just law you have to prove that the benefits outweigh hurting these people.
If the law is unjust, then those who follow that law are unjust. There is no moral reason to follow the law rather than one’s own morality.
So all you’ve got to do is offer reasons why this law is just. Explain what is gained out of sending these people back that makes up for hurting them by sending them back and costing us money to find them. Give us something besides “B-b-b-but that’s illegal…”
while this exaggerates the point a bit, it’s very much on target. Yes, if you’re a Mexican pediatric oncologist with $750,000 in investments, or a research biochemist at a major Mexican university with an offer from Glaxo Smith Kline, you can find the skids greased for legal immigration. But if you’re an unskilled or semi-skilled laborer wanting to work in the U.S., without immediate family already legally resident, it’s nearly impossible to do so under current immigration law. That noted radical George W, Bush acknowledged this issue.
Beyond that, if paying a certain fee and signing certain papers will get you to where there is good-paying work, are yu really expecting the prospective immigrant to distinguish between whether the fee and papers are collected by someone speaking a language you are not fluent in who is a bona fide U.S. Immigration official or someone, again speaking another language, who is purporting to be one who is in actuality a coyote?
And take note that those who run businesses using “illegal aliens” generally are not the ones the law comes down on – they get at most a slap-on-the-wrist fine and are free to do it again.
Nobody is, I think, saying, “Throw open the borders to every potential terrorist who wants in” – they’re saying, “Reform immigration law to be just to potential immigrants and to meet the labor needs of America, and stop penalizing the people without resources for seeking to better themselves.”