Honestly, with all the red flags popping up it sounds like simple avoidance might be the most prudent strategy.
That’s a strategy that many use successfully to avoid problem situations.
I share QtM’s concern, hon. “Normal” (sic) people don’t need to control their drinking, because their drinking doesn’t get out of control.
your favorite ex, twicks, who has (as you know) been sober over 20 years
I would slightly disagree with that. When I look back on the period where I thought I was drinking too much…I really wasn’t. Not to say that some people don’t have real drinking problems because they obviously do, but drinking has to a certain extent been demonized in our society to the point where even some “normal” drinkers wonder if they have an issue.
Normal drinkers don’t regularly drink more than they intended to, especially when they’re aware of the possibility of significant consequences if they do (DUI).
It’s one thing to question one’s use of alcohol. I’m not of the mind that just questioning one’s use automatically indicates a problem.
It’s another thing altogether when one questions their alcohol use, decides to limit their use, consistently fails to adhere to the self-imposed limit, and worries about it.
It is possible to go to bars and not drink booze. I’ve even been to strip clubs and ordered diet coke all night. The company is just as good and I still had as much fun. BTW I am a drinker but only drink if I actually feel like it and not because everyone else is. I am > 50.
Please go to an AA meeting or two, Astro, and listen to those people.
Then keep on going.
You’re probably an alcoholic. Problem is, if you continue drinking, you’ll drink more and more, and you won’t stop until you’ve hit bottom.
And that can be very late.
Been there.
You have absolutely no qualifications whatsoever to say “you’re probably an alcoholic.” If you’ve actually ever been to AA then you should know you’re in no position to label astro an alcoholic. He could be, he may not be. There’s nothing in his posts that would say for sure at this point, or even indicate that might be the case.
I just wanted to respond to this as well. I agree that this adage is a little too cut-and-dried. If you’re going to consume alcohol responsibly, at all, you have to know on some level how it affects you, and how much it impairs you in different quantities and so on. The line between this, and “worrying about it” doesn’t seem very clear to me. You might be out at a bar, and asking yourself, “If I have one more beer now, but follow it with a plain tonic, and wait an hour before driving, is it OK?” Would you be worrying about your drinking at that point, or just trying to rationally evaluate your level of intoxication?
Now hold on just a picosecond … I’m willing to plead guilty to a lot of stuff, but classifying me as an “alcoholic” is kind of pushing the definitional envelope to the breaking point. I typically go out once a week, and not even every week if I’ve got something else going on. I never drink during the day, even on weekends, and I have no alcohol whatsoever in my house. Other than the drinking context I described my alcohol consumption is essentially zero. I don’t crave alcohol, and I don’t need alcohol. I don’t go looking for alcohol. The last time I bought beer for my refrigerator was three years ago because my friends were coming over.
The specific concern I have is that when I get together with my friends for a “hail fellow well met” session on Friday evening over the past several months 2 beers often becomes 3-5 beers over the course of 3 + hours, and in my opinion that’s just too much. That’s why I made this post. I have not gone into those sessions absolutely determined to limit my consumption to 2 beers and failing. I have determined through trial and error (via the effects of over indulging) that 2 beers is an appropriate amount of alcohol over the course of 2 hours, and I was trying to get ideas to achieve that.
Enough warning flags have been raised in this thread by posters I respect about the potential slippery slope and difficulty of trying to manage alcohol consumption as you consume, so I have decided not to keep going to these outings. There’s no vast internal struggle in this. It’s as if I determined that roast beef sandwiches were bad for me. I might look upon their absence with a wistful regret, but I wouldn’t be banging the bell on the deli counter at 7AM Monday morning demanding 2 lbs of fresh sliced Boars Head brand.
Let’s not be drama lamas, it’s a social issue I’m mismanaging, not a physical or behavioral compulsion.
I think it’s actually true that many people may not be aware of non-alcoholic options. If the intent is to avoid alcohol, they might assume there’s really nothing else but fruit juice, soda, and Perrier, of which the first two might seem too sweet, and the third not really having any flavor. That’s why I always like to give my Angostura/tonic/lime recipe in these threads, though I do understand it’s not appropriate for anyone who is or might be alcoholic. It’s only for those who are not alcoholics but want an alternative drink on occasion. Actually I wonder if there might be an alcohol free substitute for the Angostura? I should look into that.
Hey, I hang with other alcoholics at my AA meetings, I diagnose alcoholism in my patients, I treat their physical problems due to their alcoholism, I’ve worked closely with addictionists, and I would not presume to offer a diagnosis of alcoholism to astro based on what he’s shared.
I have only a passing familiarity with AA–it’s always just been my understanding that AA typically teaches that it isn’t the job of other members of AA to tell someone they are or are not an alcoholic, that’s something the individual should be left to do for themselves.
Obviously with any sort of doctor or substance abuse professional involved in the treatment of substance abuse, diagnosis would be part of their job. But even such a professional, I wager, would almost certainly never diagnose someone over the internet (obviously you’d know better than I on that one.)
See, this is exactly why. when my drinking increased after my father’s death and I began to worry about it a little, I didn’t post here about it. For every well-reasoned and thoughtful opinion like QtM’s and others in this thread, you get someone who demands that you be an alcoholic because your drinking pattern is out of the norm.
First of all, Happy Birthday! I’m only 2 years behind ya. 
About 10 years ago I successfully used this strategy: I alternated one non-alcoholic beer for one ‘real’ beer. That way, I drank six drinks but only 3 counted.
Last year I quit entirely. You may be interested to know that I lost about 20 pounds after that - simply from cutting the beer out of my diet.
Good luck whatever you decide.
Hey man, I enjoy all your posts - and QTM has it spot on. I don’t drink anymore, but I am close enough to when I stopped to offer a small nugget of an anecdote. I am a young enough guy [mid-thirties] I have a lot of 30-something friends and older. My wife and I go out often with friends to dinner, parties, and we absolutely love to entertain. I knew my drinking was a problem when it became a problem, I recognized it right off coming from a long line of drinkers - I knew what it looked like. Basically, only you know if you need to stop or moderate. If moderating is difficult, try abstaining for a few days and watch how your body repsonds, listen to your self man. And above all, to thine own self be true, ok? No one else can ascribe anything to you or for you.
People drink to relax. People drink too much to get drunk. Knowing the differenct is the question. I have to stay to 1 drink per hour at the minimum so I rotate NA drinks if I’m thirsty. I know many alcoholics who go to a bar and drink NA beer all night long.
So the test is simple, knowing that alcohol decreases reasoning skills do you have the willpower to stay at a specific level and switch to NA drinks?
If I got your story correct, you go out on Friday nights only, directly across the street from where you live, and drink maybe five beers or so over a period of several hours?
Healthy? Probably not.
Alcoholic? Also probably not.
Getting a beer buzz on a Friday night with friends, and then going home alone to sleep after a long week is pretty much normal for lots of folks.
Now if you start going to the bar alone on Wednesdays for five or six, or start kicking back 8 or 9 or 10 beers in an hour, well, it might be time to start going directly home after work.
But I think one night a week, with some friends, getting a beer buzz and not passing out on the bar floor is not something to be overly concerned about. Then again, if you think it is a problem, well - you know yourself better than any of us armchair psychiatrists.
Okay. I had no business saying what I did.
I’m very sorry.
You’ve gotten a lot of good suggestions so far.
I think it is really to your credit that you are aware of how much you are drinking and concerned with whther you should do something about it, and if so, exactly what you should do. In my mind, those are pretty significant factors pointing towards “not an alcoholic.” But that is just a label.
As you’ve correctly observed, you probably don’t want to get in the habit of driving after 5 beers over 2-3 hours. The potential costs simply aren’t worth the risk. So what solution do you prefer? You could do any number of things:
-keep drinking at your current pace and leave after your 2d-3d beer.
-make an effort to slow down. Many heavy drinkers gulp rather than sip their drinks. Plan on no more than 2 beers over the 1st hour, and 1 per hour thereafter.
-intersperse beers with water or other NA drinks, and eat food. Whether or not someone gives you a hard time about not drinking beer is a non-issue. What and how much you drink is your business and no one else’s (providing you don’t overindulge and hurt someone.) Drinking water and eating food will fill you up and dilute what ETOH you have drunk.
-If you are concerned with your total alcohol intake, you can put all kinds of limits on your drinking. Moderation Management has many suggestions. For example, you might not drink more than 2 days in a row, no more than 4 drinks on any day, or more than 10 drinks per week. Keep track, and if you are lying to yourself, at least you’ll find that out.
-find a way to get to and from the bar without driving.
-stop drinking alcohol altogether.
-countless other approaches.
I stopped drinking 3-4 years ago. I had been drinking way more than you describe. I tried to moderate for a year or so, but found it was simpler just to not drink at all. I go to bars quite often, and drink iced tea, tonic water, lemonade, or NA beer.