I have nothing constructive to offer. I just wanted to offer my well-wishes. My daughter suffers from depression and anxiety, so I empathize.
So this is just an armchair diagnosis, but has your daughter ever been abused?
The self harming, perfectionism, suicidal tendencies, wanting to move, etc all make me wonder if she was abused and that started her down this bad path.
Have you had an open conversation with her about it to see if that has happened to her? There can also be overlap between complex Ptsd and borderline personality disorder.
Also she may be an empath, which is someone who feels others suffering very strongly. There are books she can read to learn to deal with the stresses of having that personality type.
I’m confident Pam was never physically abused by anyone. She’s always been open and honest with me. She would have told me, or at least her caregivers if she was. And, except for the self-abuse cuts on her arms and legs, there were never any signs of physical abuse.
She was mentally abused by her mother. How much that affected her, I don’t know. I don’t believe it resulted in full-blown PTSD, but it was the biggest factor in her wanting to get out of Dodge.
Pam’s always had a saucy tongue, but I only heard her say the “c” word once in her life, and it shocked me. When she was in the hospital the second time I told her that her mother was planning to fly out and see her. She said, “I don’t want that c** anywhere near me.”* She couldn’t stop the visit, but she arranged for a nurse to be in the room and limited the visit to 5 minutes.
She does show signs of being an empath. Good call.
The biggest scars left by mental abuse are mental ones. Self-harm is an expression of an inner wound.
As an artist with mental illness myself, I can understand thinking you’re not good enough. It’s a feeling I got often while studying music at McGill, feeling that everyone was better than me.
Is your daughter still into making art? If so, maybe it’d be a boost to her confidence if she could exhibit some of it.
Though I do realize that the art issue isn’t the main issue here. I’m glad your daughter has a psychologist, though I know that people can still have problems and feel suicidal if they are getting professional help.
I’m so glad you and your other daughter are so supportive. Wishing the best for all of you.
Yes, she’s still into art and plans a career in it. She does exhibit her work and has sold a few pieces.
She went through a short phase (thankfully) where she wanted to become a tattoo artist. For her 16th birthday, all she wanted was a tattoo. I wasn’t happy about that, but I relented. She designed the tattoo and had it placed on her right forearm—it’s a head-shot of our cat, Tibby. She loves cats. The following year she designed a Picasso-inspired piece for her left forearm. She loves Picasso.
I have no observations, just best wishes.
I just asked her and she said she is doing DPT. She likes it and says it helps. However, she’s not too happy with her new therapist. Said she’s inexperienced. Pam’s teaching her how to do DPT properly. :smack:
As with others, I can only offer my best wishes. This is a trial I don’t know that I could have handled as well as you are.
Physical abuse is just one form of abuse. There is also sexual Abuse, verbal abuse, neglect, etc. Self harm is usually tied into abuse when young. The fact that she started so young makes me think she had a hard life. I know she is honest with you, but if she ever comes forward and says she was raped at age 8 or so, or that the psychological abuse was worse than you realized, make sure you support her and don’t do something that makes her feel like you can’t handle it. The fact that her saying cunt shocks you may mean she knows there is even darker stuff she doesn’t feel comfortable telling you about her life.
She has been verbally abused at minimum. If I were you I’d make sure that you fully respect your daughters desire to have no contact with her mother. Let her know you realize she feels that way for a reason and you respect her wishes to feel safe and cared for by healthy, supportive people who will back her up when she sets boundaries against cruel and toxic people.
Does she have eating disorders?
I’m sorry to hear about what your family is working through.
The second half of your story matches very closely with my own oldest daughter’s life–cutting and many other things culminating in suicide attempts and subsequent time in various psychiatric facilities (we jokingly refer to it as “back when you were in jail”). That was “the year without a summer”.
She eventually was diagnosed with BPD.
She has been working through a DBT program for the past couple of years and I believe it has made a positive impact in her life.
Wait…what??
I have struggled with sometime similar. It’s complex PTSD, and it comes from childhood abuse.
I recommend a book called The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk M.D. He also has a number of videos on YouTube.
The book explains what happens in the brain, and why the brain reacts to badly to triggers. Childhood trauma causes real changes within the brain and people simply react differently.
The abuse in our family was horrific, but I know people who also developed symptoms from less abuse or simply emotional neglect. van der Kolf says that people with complex PTSD (from childhood abuse) have been misdiagnosed as a whole range of disorders, including BPD.
I’m not a therapist, and even a real one would not think of making a diagnosis based on a thread like this, but the reason I recommend that book is that it gives such a good explanation as to what is happening. It seems to me that even if Pam doesn’t have C-PTSD, the book can give some insight to some similar symptoms.
With emotional disorders such as PTSD and BDT, rational thought alone isn’t enough. It does take some specialized therapy for the emotional component.
I tried normal therapy for years and years before I found a specialist who could help. Normal therapy works well with normal problems, and probably works better with irrational delusions better than it does with severe emotional disorders.
It does take an enormous amount of work.
For clarity, I’m discussing my disorder here.
Mod Hat On
Knock it off with these jerkish one liners. They are inappropriate for this kind of thread.
From all of the things I’ve listened to on the subject BPD is often related to abandonment issues and such trauma. It sounds like her mom leaving her has caused this need to control. Perfectionism and cutting are both often about control. They are pain that can be controlled and that can be quite soothing, an outlet for feeling out of control when one is abandoned, or when one then copes by turning that inward and becoming a perfectionist.
I’m sorry that you’re going through this, but even more that she is. I was a very tortured perfectionist for many years due to my life growing up in a cult. I learned to let it go and to reach for happiness instead of perfection. Even if I would have attained perfection in some area of life I would have just turned to the next thing because it was never about the perfection but more the control and the escape of it all. Now I didn’t get to the point of BPD, though I was suicidal at a point and had ideations since I was a kid. My life is immensely better now. I kept working on myself and was determined to be happy. I hope she finds more happiness herself.
Thanks, Soapy, that was much needed.
Bpd is rough. My adopted daughter has it. As is typical, heavily charismatic and manipulative. She uses self-harm and other harm as manipulation tactics. Small events throw her into spirals. Once, we wouldn’t go to the movies, so she jumped out a second story window. We didn’t get her KFC, so she took a knife, slashed our mattress and buried it in a note on my pillow that dared me to go to sleep that night. We have two younger children, so rented her an apartment after she turned 18 so she wouldn’t be a threat to them, we didn’t let her move back in, so she checked herself into a psych facility and reported to CPS that we were molesting her and the other kids in an effort to get them taken away. Constant barrage of threats and multiple suicide attempts, some faked and some real. Holes in walls, broken windows, burning things she thought were valuable to us, lots of fun. She plays games to get others on her side and attempts to separate anyone in a relationship with us away. Incredibly jealous and possessive.
First the bad, now the good. The last two years she has been on an upward spiral. She is doing well in college, not perfect, but able to recognize more her tendency to lash out and manipulate. She is learning to ‘use her power for good’ rather than to hurt others. She is being increasingly able to realize that our love is not a zero sum game and that not every action we take is done purely as a measure of our love for her. She is increasingly independent and honestly, things have been quite good for a bit. BPD isn’t ‘curable,’ but it is manageable, and right now she’s managing.
Can she get a new therapist?
Seriously. It’s never the responsibility of the patient the teach the therapist.
I spent far too long with therapists who didn’t know what they were doing. If I could go back in time, that’s really the first thing I would want to do.
I think she may have been kidding when she said she was teaching her. But, she did say she was inexperienced. And I did tell her to switch if she doesn’t connect with her. Pam’s no shrinking violet, if she doesn’t like something, she’ll fight to get what she wants. I’d do it for her, but she’s 18 now and likes to fight her own battles. She knows I respect her decisions.