While I don’t think something that could have come off of a bumper sticker will be the ultimate resolution in something as profound as your daughter’s issues, you might try a quote from Leonardo da Vinci, the ultimate renaissance man:
Art is never completed, only abandoned.
If a guy with his chops is never satisfied, I think deep down inside, no one is, not even your Pam. As an artist this may resonate with her.
Either that or encourage her to become an engineer of some sort. After all, their motto is, Perfect is the enemy of good enough.
I don’t know what DPT is but I definitely agree on the bolded bit!
The encouraging thing about your situation, for what it’s worth, is that your daughter saw an issue and took action, time and time again (like admitting herself). That’s a huge, huge, huge sign that she wants to feel better. That said: it’s tough, and scary, and did I mention it’s tough? Thank heaven she has that friend who made a safe place for her to go to.
There are some similarities here. Our tale:
My daughter has some issues similar to your daughter, in that she’s scary bright, likes art, and has mental health issues (including somewhat recent suicidal ideation).
What she does NOT have is the drive to take advantage of opportunities, to learn, etc. She’s 22.
She was becoming a blight on the whole household. She blew off community college 2 years in a row. She blew off art classes several semesters in a row. She barely held down a 4-hour-a-week job. Asking her to do the dishes - which were mostly her responsibility as everyone else in the house had jobs - was a pretty good way to cause a breakdown. When my husband and I each had surgery within 10 days, and genuinely NEEDED help, it was like she was being martyred if we asked her to fetch something for us. She was blowing up so badly we were close to throwing her out of the house (she was just about to turn 21 then).
She was on meds and had been for years - an SSRI, an older antidepressant to help her sleep, and something for ADHD. They helped a bit at first but were clearly no longer working - and the doctors were not making any real effort to ask the right questions to figure out whether they were working. She fought efforts to help her (like when she went to see a new doctor).
Luckily for us, she was diagnosed with seizures. Yes, “luckily” - because the seizure medication made a massive difference in her mood as well. We’re wondering if she has a milder form of bipolar as this seizure med is now a first line treatment for bipolar.
So this was all going on right around her 21st birthday. A friend suggested we look into therapeutic residential programs. We found several, all 500+ miles away. One was reluctant to take her because of the recent suicidal thoughts - but when we did a visit, she’d been on the seizure meds for several months, and they were willing to take her because of the improvement. We were fortunate to have the means to keep her there - though as we told her right up front: the funds are limited and it’s your college money.
There was an instant reduction in the stress levels at home. We weren’t seeing much of an improvement in HER behavior by by September or so, but since then she’s changed her meds a bit more, and now she’s making plans. She’ll move to a step-down program hopefully within the month (slightly cheaper, slightly less oversight). She opted not to come home for either Thanksgiving or Christmas - we visited her after Christmas. We did not argue this decision, as she made the holidays a misery last year.
I do worry, what if she has an emergency or something and we’re 500 miles away (no good way to get there by air; train or driving are each 12 hours). And I miss her… but I do not miss the drama.
Not all mental illness is triggered by abuse and its horrifying to me to plant that from a description on the internet into the mind of a parent…moreover, the assumption that it is can short circuit therapy, tear apart families, and provide an “excuse” for behavior even when the “abuse” was “you never bought me a puppy.” Been there, done that, have the t-shirt - my baby sister’s alcoholism had a therapist looking for repressed memories - and a sister happy to grab at that…it was a horrible few years while what she now admits were completely fabricated accusations of sexual abuse were hurled in the direction of uncles, and the sisterly teasing and fights we had became incidents of locking her in closets for days at a time and force feeding her worms (which never happened either).
I’m so sorry you are going through this. My oldest has been challenged with addiction, and my youngest with depression and anxiety - including suicidal ideation. Its horrifying to go through yourself (I have depression and anxiety myself), its worse to watch your loved children go through it.
One challenge for bright kids is that there was a period of time when they were young where they always felt like they were the smartest ones. Probably up until 6th grade or so, a bright kid may have never really met another kid who was smarter than them. So they may have had the intrinsic expectation that they would always be the smartest or best at anything. Then when the other kids catch up, they feel like it’s a huge failure that they’re no longer the best. That may help explain why she feels so bad when she finds that someone else is better at her at something. Unfortunately, I’m not sure how to help her work past that kind of thinking. The world is a big place and there will always be people who are better at something than she is.
Some birth control pills can cause incredible mood changes, as can anabolic steroids in (mostly) men. Women may not go as far as “roid rage”, but they can still go off on strange things if they’re on the wrong BCP. Yaz is the modern one I’ve heard is the absolute worst for this kind of thing.
I have a FBF who has said that the psychiatric side effects of Yaz were a coffin nail in a faltering marriage, although looking back this far, they were incompatible anyway; however, this didn’t help.
Just want to chime in as a mental health professional to note that while it *is *the case that more women than men are diagnosed with BPD, there is no correlation between personality disorders or suicidality and menstrual cycle.
(((Tibby))). I’m so sorry, and it’s totally reasonable to be terrified out of your mind for your kiddo.
DBT was designed for BPD, and it can be tremendously effective–with the right therapeutic alliance and strong external supports. Pam obviously has the latter in you, and I hope she doesn’t give up on therapy just because she’s not connecting with her current therapist. If she’s able to keep trying, she’ll find another one who suits her better–I’d encourage her to switch up clinicians if she’s feeling like her current one doesn’t know what they’re doing. Love and best wishes to her and you both.
(I’d also encourage you to see someone yourself for support if you can.)
Once again, thanks for all the moral support. And, my heart goes out to others affected by BPD (and other debilitating mental disorders). I didn’t realize how pervasive BPD is in the lives of fellow Dopers and their families.
This thread gained more traction than I expected. Maybe it would be good to keep it alive for awhile so we can share helpful information, share our stories and learn more about what works and what doesn’t. At the very least, it offers catharsis.
And, I don’t mind the joke posts at all. I lost a lot, but I didn’t lose my sense of humor. They’re going to have to pry that from my … oh, never mind.
I’ve got a lot to relate, I just don’t know where to begin. I fell down the rabbit hole when I married a sociopath. I’ll post more tomorrow.
My family is experiencing a similar issue to yours with one of our young people–definitely out there on the Axis 2/Cluster B Jackpot o’Fuckery territory but might be even worse than BPD and the person is staunchly refusing to acknowledge there’s anything wrong with their behavior. Distraught isn’t beginning to cover it. You have ALL my sympathy and I hope your daughter can pull off a successful accomodation to her illness.
This may not be for you, but finding spiritual support in whomever or whatever you choose may help you cope with your pain and maybe lead your daughter to draw off your inner peace and gain some of her own.
I’ve suffered from mild to moderate depression almost all my life and for the past 20 years or so, not a day goes by without my thinking about or wishing for death. What initially helped me was medication to help me cope with the ups and downs of life (I’ve long since stopped it) and later it was finding my spiritual guide in whom I trust and speak to daily in prayer. I’m fully functional and unless someone gets to know me really well, they don’t know my inner turmoil. I’ve even had people ask how I’m able to cope with some of the issues I’ve had to go through and still seem at peace with myself.
I’ve known a couple of people with BPD, mostly through group therapy. My own issues are a generalized anxiety disorder and Clinical Depression. I was doing much better with group therapy combined with meds, and the occasional one on one session as needed. But I personally hit a roadblock where I knew I was much better than I had been, but I seemed to have stopped making any further progress. I told this to my therapist, and she knew of a special program (here in New York State) called “PROS” or “Promise” (run out of Jawonio). Apparently it’s something that has been tried in some other states as well. Anyway, there are people with a lot of different diagnoses in PROS. You can go any number of days per week that you want to. It’s a structured program (except Saturdays which are more relaxed), almost like a school, where they have classes on all sorts of things, some very specialized, some less so (because people with these kinds of diverse problems also tend to have a lot of things in common). There’s also access to job coaching, doctors, and so on. I will say that you have to choose to use the resources provided or you won’t get anything out of it. We even have social activities and peers participate in suggesting classes, and mentoring other peers, and even facilitating classes. It works for a lot of people. If you only want to go one day a week, that’s fine, if you think you need more, you can do more. Peers also run activities. Some people graduate and eventually even get hired by the program. So a lot of the people there helping with recovery know what it’s like to have a mental illness, first hand. Here’s a website for the program in New York, but as I said, because of how successful it’s been, it’s being picked up in other states: Jawonio - The Premiere Provider of Lifespan Services Note that the program is voluntary, and you must be 18 or older. It’s covered by Medicare and Medicaid.
