My Oldest Daughter Worries Me (long)

For about a year, I couldn’t post about all my “issues” with my oldest daughter, because she was a member of the boards (even though she was not active because of no internet access). Now, though, her membership has lapsed. Since I paid for it the first time, and she’s not in a good financial situation right now, I don’t expect to see her back. So, I can vent, or whatever.

A little background, for those who aren’t somewhat aware of this: She’s 19 (she’ll be 20 in June, and that’s one of my worries; she won’t have health insurance then, and her psych meds cost hundreds of dollars a month). She’s been diagnosed bipolar and borderline personality. She’s been hospitalized a half dozen times for suicidal ideations and suicide attempts. She claims to be addicted to alcohol and drugs (and I know she’s abused those substances), but sometimes she claims she’s not actually addicted, and can drink/use drugs recreationally, socially, safely.

The crux of my worry is this: she’s all about the drama. She wants to shock me. Family therapists (yeah, we’ve been all over that) and we agree that the best thing to do is remove the reward, and not be shocked by her behavior. When she was 14, she announced she was depressed and needed counseling. We got her counseling (and meds). Of course, she won’t stay on the meds, because she likes the manic phases too much. She’s also admitted, in counseling, that she’s simply unwilling to do the work it would take to get better.

At 15, her first suicide attempt. At 16, she started dating a man who was 38. That one got me, too. He was giving her drugs and alcohol. He’s an ongoing feature in this story, and his name starts with a “J”, so let’s call him “Jerk”. It’s not what I call him otherwise, but it’ll do for now. After Jerk went back to his wife, Daughter started claiming drug and alcohol addiction, and wanted to go into a rehab. We got her into one. In fact, because of the good people of the Dope, she got more mail than anyone else there! While there, she claimed that Jerk had actually raped her, repeatedly, while she was uncoscious/under the influence. I didn’t believe her. She just didn’t seem like anyone who had been raped. I suspected it was more shock value, plus the program for sexual victims was “cooler” :rolleyes: Whatever.

After rehab, she was hooked up with a social worker specializing in “Family Preservation”. Her social worker was really cool. She had dropped out of school. Her family pres worker paid to get her a photo ID, and they got her GED prep courses. (Did I mention we were really broke at the time?) After her prep courses, in which she did really well, they paid for her to take the GED test. They even provided transportation. The test is in two parts. The morning of the first part, Daughter couldn’t find her photo ID (and we were not going to pay the $20.00 to get a replacement one). They let her take the first part, anyway, but said she wouldn’t be allowed to take part two without her ID. She didn’t find it. Couldn’t be bothered. Once her time with family pres was over, her social worker called me and said “I don’t want to offend you, but I’ve never seen anyone as bright as your daughter do such dumb stuff”. I wasn’t offended. I couldn’t agree more.

Shortly thereafter, she announced she was going back to Jerk. I said “Wait a minute, you’re going back to the guy who raped you?? Repeatedly??” She told me she hadn’t been ‘lying’ about that, she’d just ‘misremembered’, and he hadn’t actually raped her.

When they broke up the second time, she went for Shock Value again, and announced that she was Gay. Well, that backfired. Because, frankly, it doesn’t matter to me. Then she announced she was into S&M. Again, failure on her part. It runs in the family. I’m not surprised. Then, she announced she wasn’t really Gay, she was Bi, and going back to Jerk. In fact, as soon as she turned 18, she moved in with him (he was once again separated from his wife).

Six months later, she called me. She was leaving him, and wanted to come home. I went and got her. His behavior was so stalkerish that she looked into getting a restraining order against him. I personally threatened him with physical violence (from hubby, not me; I’m a wuss) if he didn’t stop his constant surveillance on our house. Three months later, she went back to him. Then he lost his job, and now they live with his father. :smack: Oh, did I mention Jerk’s daughter, and his son, are both going to be parents? He’s 42 now.

Here’s my primary worry: where will she stop with the attempts to shock us? I’m afraid she’s going to permanently fuck her life up, just to “show” us that we must pay attention to her. Even now, when she’s not living here, she ‘demands’ my attention frequently, by calling me. A lot. Probably 7-10 times a week. She’ll scold me for not calling her to tell her when I had to go to the ER (I could understand her being upset if I’d gone for a heart attack or something, but it was a kidney stone. I’ve dealt with these since I was 15, and can’t count the number of times I’ve been in the ER for one); she gets upset if I don’t call her to tell her that her ‘baby’ sister is sick (she’s 7) with a cold or whatever. I’m just sick of it. And she keeps talking about marrying Jerk, as soon as his divorce is final. In fact, she’s currently excited about being a “grandma” to his grandchildren!

The one thing I’m thankful for is that I suspect she may not be very fertile. I say this because she’s been sexually active since she was 14, and I know she hasn’t been consistently careful, and so far, no babies!

Oh, yeah, I’m also grateful that my 15-year-old daughter and 7-year-old daughter are showing no signs of this kind of trouble (and yes, with the oldest, it was pretty clear that there were problems, by the time she was 7).

Okay, if you’ve hung in here this long, I’ll just say: thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

Phew. That sounds like a ball of fury that’s been locked up for a little while. I’ve got no advice whatsoever, but I hope you feel a little better for venting.

Oh, yeah, it’s been locked up for a while. I have a couple of close friends who know exactly what’s going on with Daughter, and in fact, stormed into one friend’s house, when she announced she was going back to Jerk, and demanded that said friend invite me to stay for coffee. :wink:

But really, the Dope is such an outlet for me, it was really tough not being able to post about this shit.

I’m not really looking for advice. I don’t believe anything anyone here can tell me will help (except to know I’ve got some support out there). I don’t believe there’s anything else I can do for her. Now it’s all in her court. Her life is going to suck until she decides to make it not suck any more. Right now, that’s just about too much work for her.

I really feel for you, I have been watching HBO documentaries on addiction all morning, many of the addicts also have some sort of a mental illness. They really put their families through the wringer with repeated attempts to clean up, often failing again and again, so sad.

I have no kids. I don’t know the pain you’re going through. But I think at her age, it’s time to let her sink or swim. Yeah, she’s going to screw up her life for a while, but she’s young enough to bounce back once she’s grown up a bit. But you’ve said yourself that a good bit of what she does is for the shock value. So I’d just tell her, “Okay, this is the path you’ve chosen. Enjoy it. But don’t come back.” When it fails, and it will, she’ll want to come back. Tell her it’s time she made it on her own. She may have to fall pretty far before she comes back up, but you can’t fix her problems for her, only she can.

I have a niece who has been jerking her parents around like this for a while. “I’m suicidal.”, " I’m gay", “I need therapy”, “I’m a cutter”. . Frankly, what she needs is to have to spend the energy that goes into being a drama queen on supporting herself.

StG

Oh, I had borderline PD when I was 19. I read tons and tons about it, because it was “my” disorder and it made me feel special to have a diagnosis (feeling special over being mentally ill is also characteristic of BPD).

I also found a book that my parents had bought- “Stop Walking on Eggshells- How to Live with Someone who has BPD”. I snuck it out of their room and read it myself. The book definitely mentioned that Shock Value that your daughter craves and how the parents and/or loved ones should not reward by acting shocked.

On the other hand, when my parents ignored my shocking gestures, it made me escalate the behavior until I did something that worked. And if that didn’t worked, I’d do something even worse.

In hindsight, I think what would have helped to stop some of these behaviors would be if my parents had paid attention, but not in a way that I enjoyed. For example-

“Hey mom, look I cut myself!”
“Oh dear…those look like they might get infected…we should get you to a hospital to look at those!”

“Hey mom…I’m going to swallow all these pills if you don’t pay attention to me!”
“That’s dangerous…we’ll call an ambulance and they’ll take you to a mental hospital. You need a rest…”

The bright side of BPD that I’ve read many times is that many people just “grow out of it” by the time they’re in their late 20s or so. That’s pretty much what happened to me.

You realise she doesn’t need to be a member to read this right?

Well, that’s what I’ve done. The last time she went back to Jerk, I said “This house does not have a revolving door. I could see this turning into a cycle if I allowed it, so I’m not going to allow it. If you leave here now, you don’t come back”. She said okay, but I’m not sure she understands yet.

Unfortunately, she thrives on this kind of attention. In fact, even now, she’ll call me to say “I’m having a really bad day; I think I’m going to ask Jerk to drive me to the ER”. And I’ll say “Okay”.

Last week she called me to say that her psychiatrist had told her to ease herself off of Lithium, but she went cold turkey instead. She was having a really depressive day, and did I think it might be because she stopped her Lithium cold-turkey? I said I dunno; I’m not a doctor. You need to call your psychiatrist. She called back a half-hour later to tell me she couldn’t get hold of her psychiatrist. She asked me to research Lithium withdrawal on the 'net. Maybe I shouldn’t have done it, but I did. Every bit of info I gave her, her response was “That’s not helping the way I feel right now”. So I suggested she go to the hospital (one local hospital has a psych ward). She asked me to drive her. I told her no, because I’d already taken my pain meds, and cannot drive under the influence. She called two hours later to see if I was fit to drive yet. I told her no. She called two hours later to tell me she was feeling better. She called later that night to tell me she was feeling worse again. . .on and on.

I’m truly hoping she’ll outgrow it. I’m also hoping (and praying, a lot), that she won’t do anything permanently damaging in the meantime.

Yes, I realize that. I don’t care if she reads this. There’s nothing I’ve said in the OP that I haven’t said, or wouldn’t say, to her face. I don’t pull punches with her. The reason I wouldn’t do this when she was a member is that family problems between members are verboten.

And again I am convinced not to have children.

Seriously I don’t know how people cope with this. You raise a child, you do the best you can do, and this is how she turns out.

Norinew you are one of my favorite posters and I really hope this works out for you. I have no advice, I’ve never faced anything remotely like it. My mother is bi-polar or something (I think - she’s never been diagnosed, but I’m fairly certain there’s some kind of illness there) - but it’s the opposite when it’s a child.

Good luck. You’ll be in my thoughts.

First feel free to email me - I worked with Borderline Teenage girls for a while and can steer you to some helpful support groups.

The upside - > Teenage girls tend to outgrow being borderline.

But the Shock Value of certain stunts you describe is the borderline’s signature…The fact that she is over 18 can be detrimental especially if she is going to loose her medical benefits. She or you may want to look into state aide. If you have some pointed Q’s you’d like to ask go ahead and email me.

An aside: Working with borderline girls has a near 100% burnout rate. I lasted less than a year. I’ve seen the worse of the worse, from cutting, to hanging, to biting to sexual mutilation. These girls need help. The man you described her being with, needs to be behind bars. Sick.

You need to keep a close eye on her if you can, and NEVER, EVER downplay her shocking outbursts…because one of them could be her last.

That made my day. :slight_smile: I don’t usually get a mention in the “popularity” threads.

Yeah, my mom was, too. Like yours, never diagnosed. But in the immortal words of Dylan (Bob, not Dylan Thomas), you don’t need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Or, in my father’s words, if it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. My mother should never have had kids. It’s one of the reasons I’m glad my daughter doesn’t seem particularly fertile.

She has been told that she would qualify for disability. But she won’t go to the trouble to go through the application process.

Couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately, when she was with him at age 16, we tried everything we could. But 16 is the age of consent in the state of MD, so there was nothing to do. He was giving her drugs and alcohol, but couldn’t be prosecuted for that without her cooperation, which of course, she was unwilling to give.

I may just email you. I really appreciate your offer.

Email sent.

I am sorry to hear your news. Sending supporting thoughts your way!

God, this Jerk sounds like such a looooooooser!!
What an ass he is. He’s been her enabler the last few years and I have a feeling that if he wasn’t in the picture she’d still be at home with you, cleaning up her act.
Not that she’s not mostly to blame for her actions but you can’t help but think that if this turd wasn’t in the picture that she’d be on the road to recovery and doing teenage girl stuff, not talking about being a grandma. Sheesh.
I don’t think there’s much you can do at this point, she’s old enough to go where she wants. Maybe you have to sell her on the tough love and let her know that she’s not welcome back (for the umpteenth time, even though you might take her back) if things get rough again. Tell her if she doesn’t come home now that it’ll be too late.
I’d also be leary of his dad letting them stay with him, he might be a perv too. I hope she doesn’t end up in one of those situations where she gets sexually abused and won’t get any help.
Gosh, sorry for the pain you’re in, and hope things get better.

Norinew, that just sucks and you have all my sympathy.

I know you aren’t looking for advice (and I wouldn’t trust myself to give any, anyway), but I will comment in one advice-ish sort of way: she may be quite fertile and just be incredibly lucky not to have gotten pregnant (or she may have had miscarriages/abortions without telling you, although from what you’ve described it sounds likely she’d be sure to let you know). Obviously most methods of birth control aren’t going to be great, but maybe you could talk her into Depo Provera shots (assuming it works with her other meds)? That way it wouldn’t matter (as much - STDs are still an issue of course) if she was deliberately reckless, as long as every 3 or 6 months or whatever it is, she got the shot.

You don’t say so but I bet you have been stung by people around you who think it is all your fault. Let me offer some support there – sure parents make a difference in kids’ lives, but children are definitely people with distinct personalities in their own right, and sometimes all the parenting skills in the world don’t matter.

And finally, kids really can change. People here seem to think there is hope for your daughter. I know I had a friend in high school who was a TOTAL disaster - drugs, alcohol, pregnant GF, etc. etc.

I believe he is now a juvenile officer and an upstanding member of society. So you never know what may happen in the next few years.

norinew, I just wanted to tell you that you are in my thoughts. Iv’e been through a lot of stuff with both of my girls, but nothing like this.

Wow. Where the hell did that come from?

Norinew, I hope things get better for your daughter. I can’t help but think that she will straighten up as she gets older. Stay strong.

How do I address this without getting ridiculously long-winded? No, he’s not a perv. In fact, she’s known him for a lot longer than she’s known Jerk. Jerk’s dad is also the father of a girl that Daughter was friends with for many years. That’s how she met Jerk. In fact, it was Jerk’s dad who first alerted me and hubby that there was a relationship between Daughter and Jerk. I think he’s a basically decent guy, who doesn’t know how to handle this any more than we do. He lets them stay there because he doesn’t want to see either of them on the streets.

Her shrink doesn’t want her getting the shots, because of mood swings, and because of weight gain. She’s already gained 20lbs. from the meds she’s currently on. (The fact that self-control just isn’t part of her MO doesn’t help any, either).

I sincerely hope you never have to go through anything like this. Thanks for the kind thoughts.

It’s my hope she’ll straighten up. I’ve heard from others who have. It’s also my fervent hope that she doesn’t do anything permanently detrimental before that can happen. Thanks for the encouragement, though.

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