We're considering long-term commitment for our daughter

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Some of you may have been following our Oldest Daughter Chronicles, starting with a suicide attempt about a year and a half ago, in hospitals, out of hospitals; counselors, meds, psychiatrists, on and on and on. For those of you who don’t know, and might care anyway, she’s 17, diagnosed bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorder; she’s a drug addict and alcoholic (in recovery, with some degree of success). She’s all-around self-destructive. Yesterday, it happened again. She was downtown, smoking (which she’d sworn to us she stopped doing), and her father caught her. He made her come home, and we told her we absolutely weren’t going to allow her to smoke. Well, she freaked out, yelling and screaming and cursing (which we don’t allow around our 4-year-old) and carrying on. About an hour and a half later, she came to us and told her she had taken all of her lithium. There had been 9 in the bottle, and she had taken 3 as part of her morning regimen, and we decided we’d better take her to the hospital. The admitted her to the psych ward. This is her 6th short-term hospitalization, and it does her no good at all. She has admitted to us that she doesn’t want help, she doesn’t want to get better. She’s too heavily invested in being depressed, bipolar and suicidal. If she wasn’t those things, she doesn’t know what she would be, and she says it’s too much trouble to figure it out.

We are going to check into long-term hospitalization for her. We feel like we’ve done all we are capable of doing for her, and we can no longer keep her safe. Yes, we can lock up all the meds and knives, and we have done that in the past. Last time she was depressed and all the knives were locked up, she cut herself with a shaving-razor. I figure if we lock them up, too, she’ll go for the drinking glasses next. She’s 17, and she’s very bright; if she’s home, and she wants to hurt herself, she’ll find a way. So while she’s in the hospital this time, we are going to check and see what our long-term options are. She knows this, and understands. She’s been wanting to be committed for some time now.

This is a very hard decision for us; to me, it almost feels like abandonment. But I know that much of the situation is of her own choice, and there’s very little you can do to help a person who is not interested in helping themselves.

Thanks for listening.

2

Good for you in taking this step.

As bad as things may seem now, people HAVE come back from this, you know. There are lots of folks out there who were in the same boat as your daughter and who recovered to lead happy lives. Taking steps like this is part of what makes it possible. You’re giving your daughter a chance of that. Abandonment? No way. You’re being good parents by doing whatever it takes to save your girl.

Best of luck, keep working at it, and keep your chin up.

3

Here’s another vote of confidence. You’re doing what will give her the best chance for her future. A painful decision, but I expect that you’ll feel better knowing that she’s safe and getting the best you can give her.

4

Yesterday I was reading a website / message board called Parents of Suicide (don’t ask why - it’s a long story). Every single parent on there wrote that they wished they would have taken stronger steps to help their children. “If I had only…” was one phrase used over and over again.

Please take this step to help your daughter. I know it hurts, but it has to hurt much less than losing her to suicide.

You are doing the right thing. :: hugs ::

5

norinew I read your post and everything you said, you’ve just described my daughter. She is only 13, but she too is bipolar, borderline personallity, depressed, post truamatic(?) and a self mutilator. We go these same things with her. My heart is going out to you in a big way right now.

Hospitalization is not an easy choice. Each time that I’ve had to admit my daughter for short term, has been so hard. I always felt like I was just giving up on her, but thats not the case. And you’re right, if they want to hurt themselves they will. I have taken away everything I thought mine would hurt herself with and yet she still has the cuts all over her body. When asked how shes done it, she usually says with the eraser of a pencil. At 13 shes already having sex, has done and tried many drugs, heroine being the worst. Shes openly argumentive and defiant, in my heart I know it will get worse. Like your daughter she doesn’t want the meds, so what do you do?

Long term maybe the only thing that does save her. As parents we can only do so much, especially with that of this type of illness. Have you looked into the boarding schools that are specifically used for children like ours? Here are a couple of links that may be of interest. We have started to look into these ourselves, but have been holding back at her request to prove she can do it in a regular school.

Here’s one

Here’s another

And one more

The last one has additional links that may be helpful.

I hope some of this helps you in your decision.

6

I’m sorry to hear about this, Norine, but you need to do what’s best for your daughter and your family. I’ve got a family history of borderline personality disorder, and I know that that alone is a bitch to deal with.

This site has some good information about it. Their primary motive is to sell books and stuff, but there is still a lot of good overall information about borderline personality.

Good luck, and our thoughts are with you.

Robin

7

Wow. So much support already. I think if I hadn’t had this community in the past year and a half, I would have lost my mind.
store-clerk-slacker, wow! since she was 13? My daughter started using drugs when she was 15, and it’s been downhill from there. She’s in AA and NA, and was clean for about 8 months (she claims; it’s hard to say, because she lies to us all the freakin’ time) before she relapsed about a month ago. The biggest problem with the 12-step programs is that she shows no interest in actually working the program. She likes going to the meetings to socialize, and we strongly suspect that, for a time, she was involved with a guy in the program who is at least 25 years older than her. Unfortunately, our county doesn’t have any boarding schools available for such kids. The boot camps, we’ve discussed, but her insurance won’t pay for them, and we are financially strapped right now. However, her insurance will pay for long-term commitment to a mental facility (we like Shepherd Pratt in Baltimore), if the referral comes from her psychiatrist. So the trick is to convince the psychiatrist. So far, the staff at the hospital she’s currently in seem to be on our side in this.

We have forced her to take her meds, but the meds alone don’t do a lot of good. It takes a lot of work, too, and she’s either uninterested or unable to do that.

Robin, thanks for the link. We’ll have a look at that later, and see if we can find some new info. The information we already have doesn’t make us very optimistic about her future situation; so for now, we’re focusing on doing what we can to keep her safe.

8

norinew Wow, you and your family sure have a lot to deal with. I think you are doing the right thing. As you say, it is what your daughter has been wanting for some time. Best of luck.

9

Since she’s not interested in helping herself, and she’s self destructive, yes, she needs to be committed. She needs a lot more professional help than she can get on the outside. At least if she’s in a long term facility she’ll have fewer opportunities to get in trouble.

I’ve read your posts about her before, and I think that you’re probably doing what’s best for her.

10

And you’re still doing everything you possibly can. I’ll bet in twenty years, you’ll still be be supporting her 100%. Alas, sometimes, hospitalisation is sometimes the only option open. :frowning:

11

You’ll be in my thoughts, norinew. You know I’m going through something similar with my 15-year-old, but it’s not quite as severe as your problem. I hope your daughter gets the help she needs.

You might want to check into this further. My daughter spent three days in their out-patient clinic several months ago, and was seeing a psychiatrist and therapist there (at the Dulaney Station building, across from the day hospital), but we had to stop, because (we were told) Shepard Pratt is not taking patients with private insurance any more - only indigents :rolleyes: It may be only Dulaney Station and those doctors and therapists; the main in-patient hospital might still take privately insured people.

We’ve just played the “pick an unknown doctor from the book” game with our insurance company. That’s always loads of fun.

12

BiblioCat, we will definitely have to check and see if Shepard Pratt is still an option. If not, there’s Brook Lane, in Hagerstown. We like SP, but if they’re not taking private insurance anymore, we may have to look at what else there is. I suspect she’ll be in the psych section of the local hospital through the weekend, so we have a little time to catch our breath and do our homework.

13

What a tough situation. I second/third/fourth what the others have said: it may be one of the toughest things you ever do, but if you feel a long-term commitment is appropriate for your daughter, then go for it.

Speaking from what a friend has told me (child in long-term residential program, though for completely different reasons), this will give the whole family much-needed breathing space.

Your local school district is required by law to provide an appropriate educational opportunity for her as long as she’s in school. Sometimes that requires them to shell out for private school placement - sometimes outside your geographic area. You have to fight for such a placement, sometimes fight hard. But I have heard of districts paying for residential school programs in some situations.

So, if that’s something that may be appropriate for your daughter, as an alternative to “just” a hospital, fight for it and fight hard. You may want to consult with an attorney who specializes in education law.

Anyway - {{{{{hugs}}}}}

14

Just a little info from your Friendly Neighborhood Psychologist here: the treatment that has shown to work best in treating Borderline Personality Disorder is called “Dialectical Behavioral Therapy” and was developed by Marcia Linnehan. It might be worthwhile seeing if you can find a facility with clinicians who have some familiarity with this, and/or an outpatient provider later on. It’s good she’s getting some treatment sooner rather than later. It also might be helpful for you and your spouse to get some support, either individually or in a group setting. Al-Anon can also be extremely helpful and has the advantage of being free. Dealing with this sort of stress can take more of a toll on you than you realize.

Best of luck.

15

I’m sorry you’re going through this.

I think involuntary psychiatric incarceration of someone who has no interest in getting better is a poor idea. Do yourself a favor and get a copy of Reality Police by Anthony Brandt, interlibrary loan if necessary, and familiarize yourself with what nice suburban private psychiatric asylum experience can be like.

What other possibilities have you investigated? Have you tried to get your daugher involved with any user-run self-help groups?

16

I hope all works out well for you and your family. Long term commitment is not an easy thing for a parent to contemplate, but you are doing what is best to keep your daughter safe.

The diagnoses your daughter has been given are particularly difficult to deal with at home when the patient is not compliant. The two disorders can add up to flamboyant, attention seeking, chaos loving disaster…and I suspect that your family is just exhausted from trying to hold things together.

I hope that you get support for yourself as well as your daughter.

Don’t ever let anyone give you grief for making the tough choice. It takes someone who has been in your shoes to have a clue as to how very difficult it is to support a child like this…and this is not just high-spiritedness or teenage hijinks.

Bless you.

17

It’s not involuntary. She has asked to be hospitalized. I’ve read enough of your posts to understand where you’re coming from, but I think hospitalization may be just what she needs. I don’t know if it will help or not, but she won’t be able to harm herself. One of my greatest fears (and it’s already been threatened, so don’t tell me my ass is out on this one) is that if she continues to hurt herself, Social Services is going to start talking about removing not just her from the home (and I feel hospitalization would be better for her than foster care) but also our two younger daughters. My oldest kid’s behavior has had an enormous negative impact on the whole family. Something needs to change.

18

AHunter3, I forgot to add another fear of mine; my oldest will stop at nothing to get what she wants (and what she thinks she wants is to get the hell out of here). One big fear is that, if we won’t do this now, she might resort to hurting one of her younger siblings. I cannot tell you how unacceptable this would be.

19

That’s a whole lot different. Sorry, I extrapolated from “she doesn’t want to get better” and drew the wrong conclusion.

I don’t know if there’s any way I could be of help or not, but I’ll offer anyhow just in case. If you think she would like to know more about user-run groups let me know and I’ll see what resources are in your area.

20

She mentioned her daughter was involved in a 12-step group.

In my experience (11+ years), if the person doesn’t want to participate in their own recovery, a 12-step group is worse than useless. Going to meetings is not enough; there needs to be active participation and a sincere desire to get better. Otherwise, the person tends to pick up messages that reinforce what the person wants to hear, lessening the desire to improve at all. Essentially, what I mean is that if she hears there’s nothing wrong with her, then that’s what she’ll believe. It’s also easy to lie in a user-run group because there’s no one with the experience to pick up on those lies. AA and NA are fine when the person wants to recover, is willing to do the work, and

Moreover, for a girl like Norine’s daughter, meetings can be dangerous. Sadly, she’s vulnerable, reckless and self-destructive and ripe for abuse by another group member. I can’t tell you how many times I saw that, but it’s a LOT. Because they’re also not policed by anyone and accountable to no one, there is a vested interest for individual members to look the other way and not intervene when this kind of abuse happens. Again, I’ve seen a LOT of crap happen in these groups that bordered on illegal behavior that no one (sadly, including me) reported to the police, or even tried to stop.

Norine’s daughter needs and deserves the best possible intervention. At this point, it’s not about freedom or even “getting better”. It’s to keep her alive long enough for there to be any real hope of recovery. It’s that basic.

Robin