Going into the election the party leader is already known, you know that if you vote Labour party, the labour leader is currently a woman, so you get a woman Prime Minister. I find it hard to believe that makes a big difference.
And to joyfool, which religion are you talking about? The US, UK, Canada and Australia are all majority Christian countries, and India and Pakistan are respectively hindu majority or muslim majority, both of which have definite issues with women in positions of power.
From the last year or so what I’ve seen is that women are the biggest racist misogynist assholes on the planet.
But we’re talking about small differences here. Just that small subset of Americans that couldn’t pull the lever because the word ‘Hillary’ was on top of it. I’m not saying I’m right, just that small distinction could be the difference, even if it’s subconscious.
In Pakistan at least, Benezir was a minority government, both times, the second time she lost the popular vote, and needed a coalition with religious parties and ethnic nationalists to form a Government.
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And to joyfool, which religion are you talking about? (snip). India and Pakistan are respectively hindu majority or muslim majority, both of which have definite issues with women in positions of power.
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There you go again, with your assertions backed up with sweet fuck all facts. The Sub-Continent has never had a problem with women in power. We have had several through our history, Hindu and Muslim, Razia Sultana, Rani of Jhansi, Nur Jahan,
Exactly. Never admit that sexism exists. Perfect.
Yes, if anything, it was the West that was late to that party…
New Zealand has had two so far.
I think misogyny had a lot to do with yesterday’s election results, but I also think that a lot of it was not, “I’m not voting for a woman,” but, “I’m not voting for that woman.” It’s very difficult to separate out the two.
Really AK84? i’m not in the mood for this. I’ve travelled and worked in India and Pakistan. Women in power are very much a rare exception which can only occur in elite political families, the average woman in the sub-continent is subservient to men, both culturally and legally. So fuck off with your false equivalence.
When you finish, I’d love to fill it up with my homemade lemonade.
In an election that close - and it was very close - you could ascribe the blame to any number of things.
Did misogyny elect Trump? Yes.
Did racism elect Trump? Hellllll yes.
Did a poorly run campaign elect Trump? Yes.
And on and on.
Fundamentalism. If you’ve never dealt with it, it may be hard to comprehend, but it’s very sexist. Anti-woman in general for those who aren’t stark raving mad, it has interesting ideas about them never working outside the home, or cutting their hair or wearing make-up or pants, never doing anything beyond having and raising children, and fulfilling other traditional female roles. They also better toe the household party line and submit to his authority, to complete the picture.
Now obviously, vast numbers in the US don’t subscribe to that brand of Christianity, but in rural areas and the south, the ones that do not, are hold overs in similar ways. If it was good enough for daddy to believe that women shouldn’t govern (or preach or fix a car or grill or whatever), than it’s good enough for me. And the old ball and chain.
So, yeah. Males are superior and make all the decisions. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the same women that voted for Trump had mother’s that voted against the ERA in the 70s.
I posted this in the other thread before I saw yours, and it occurs to me that the last paragraph there complements your thoughts perfectly. I don’t know to what extent misogyny helped Trump, but it definitely worked against Hillary. I think it’s fair to say that a man in Hillary’s exact position – same history, same aggressive ambition – would not have had to endure the same amount of mud-slinging throughout his career and might well have prevailed against Trump. And I say this as a man.
But if I’m not mistaken each of those countries has only had ONE woman leader.
Right up to the end I thought for sure my own personal view that the US will have a gay president before we will have a woman president was going to be proven wrong. And nope, my hopes that misogyny wasn’t that bad has now been quashed.
**I’m Going to Say It. Misogyny Elected Trump. **
Bullshit.
Exactly this.
The UK has had two female leaders now, and I also missed New Zealand before which has also had two. I’m not really sure what point I’m trying to make anymore except that I agree that misogyny played some role in getting Trump elected, and even if it was only 1 percent of the popular vote, that’s enough to have made the difference. Check the percentage differences in the key swing states.
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
The Trump campaign promised simple solutions to complex problems. Trump promised quick fixes. “I’ll build a wall and make THEM pay for it!”
And the public bought it. But we really cannot fault a campaign for a winning strategy. Now we will have to practice some optimism and hope that the Trump Administration will know that complex problems have complex solutions and will bring in the right people to come up with them. If they come up with solutions, us Dem’s will have to eat a little crow. I’m OK with that. If they don’t, the people that voted for him will turn on him quickly.
You don’t have much grasp on history do you? When Trump can’t deliver on his promises, he will blame an external force, muslims, jews, Mexico, Iran, blue aliens from orion, or even Canada, it doesn’t matter just as long as he blames someone. He’ll ramp up the rhetoric and use it as an excuse to increase defense spending (creating jobs in rust belt states that swung towards him) and give the Presidency more executive powers.
We’ve seen this story play out before.
I’ve been a Republican all my life, and I identified as a conservative up until the last few years, when conservative began to mean something different than what it used to. I’m for small government, strong military, free markets, personal responsibility, etc., but I think gay rights are human rights. I am Christian, but I believe government should support freedom of religion, not just freedom of my religious beliefs.
I strongly dislike Hillary Clinton. I think she represents everything that is wrong with big socialist government. I believe she is a self-interested member of the ruling elite, who panders to special interest groups to maintain her power.
On the other hand, I think that Donald Trump represents everything that is wrong with humanity. I crossed over and voted for Hillary.
So, that’s where I am coming from. I tell you that so that you understand the context when I tell you that I think you are wrong.
I don’t think misogyny elected Trump, and I think it’s a bad idea to console oneself by pretending so.
Trump was sort of laughed at for saying the “election was rigged.” He would say that there were a lot of people who weren’t being accounted for, who were ignored, and who’s voices weren’t being heard. We all know the importance of double blind tests, because without them people have a tendency to select the evidence that supports their view. I’m probably giving Trump to much credit for the sophistication of his arguments, but I think something like this is what he was referring to.
He was right.
There are a lot of people out there who think the system is rigged, that government serves itself, that there is a ruling class of out of touch politicians that look down on the rest of us.
Donald Trump is indeed odious and his polls dropped every time he said something terrible about women, or minorities. I think he got elected in spite of that, not because of that. The evidence doesn’t suggest his misogyny helped him otherwise we would expect his poll numbers to have gone up after such statements.
I think that a lot of people just thought that if we could elect an outsider, even someone like Trump, that that would prove the system is not rigged, that we still live in a Democracy, and that their voice still counts.
I think this backlash against the system is valid in many ways. I don’t think Trump is the man to fix it, but that’s out of my hands.
This kind of thinking was also likely behind the brexit.
Anyway, I think Trump got elected in spite of his misogyny and racism, not because of it.
I’m a relatively well off white middle aged Male. I know a lot of others. I didn’t sense a hatred of women behind the Trump supporters I spoke to. A hatred of Hillary, yes.
On the other hand, I am surprised and disappointed by the result. His words and actions are disqualifying in my opinion, which is why I voted for Hillary. I disliked her a little less.