"I'm having an affair.", and more...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
141

Hey, ThePretender919, I’m not going to make any judgements against you. I’m not going to tell you what you’re doing is right, wrong, justifiable, whatever. I don’t walk in your shoes, I don’t live your life. All I’m going to suggest is that you get counseling - for YOURSELF. So that you can work out what you want - so you can hopefully get some clarity to your situation since you seem to be floundering right now. Not marriage counseling - personal counseling.

And I’m going to tell you something else - deep down, somewhere, your wife knows what is going on whether she admits it to you or not. You need to figure out what you need to do - and you need some help figuring that out. You need to get the tools you’ll need to move forward and mitigate the damages to those around you once you’ve come to a decision about what to do next.

I wish you the best.

142

Don’t get *me *started on the idea that a healthy marriage could really be healthy if it doesn’t include at least *some *amount of romantic love.

143

Those small to medium sized kid years were the worst in my marriage, too. I see a lot of the same complaints we had- work, weight, attention.

We worked through it and are stronger on the other side. Now we are almost unique in that we didn’t give up and divorce, and I’m really happy about it.

Good luck to you.

144

Yeah, I don’t think most people want a marriage with no romantic attachment. There’s another thread about roommate-like marriages that is eye-opening about that sort of thing.

The OP is defensive and probably deluded both about his new love and his marriage, but if we assume for the sake of conversation that he’s right about his wife, I don’t think most people would be content in such a marriage. I wouldn’t be.

145

Oh my gods, your child is a toddler? So the wife is still pretty deep in full-time care-taking of someone (or possibly a couple of someones) who can’t even poop on the potty?

146

And so what? Plenty of moms manage to not completely shut out their partner after having a baby and it sounds like the OP’s wife was pulling away even before that.

147

I was wondering if this was a multiple births (twins or triplets?) situation because of the vagueness on the number of children.

If so, it just makes me feel worse for everyone involved. I think the divorce rate for parents of multiples is higher, isn’t it?

148

Yeah, I am in the same camp as Ca3799, for now. I cannot comment on the infidelity, but regarding the unhealthy marriage, I had a few years (10+) where we were in a passionless, room-mate-like marriage, in the service to our two small kids.

In the early years of this timeframe, I did try many times to address the emerging lack of interest in the marriage and in me. I assured her I was still interested in her, and asked if there was any problem with me. Her response: “I don’t know”. I assured her many times that I was willing to work on things and make changes in myself and my behaviors, and asked if she was interested in doing that. Her response: “I don’t know”. Once in a while I would say something that would set her off, and I would apologize and ask if there was a better way for me to say what was on my mind. Her response: “I don’t know.” I told her that I felt like we could do better, and she told me “If you feel that way, you need to fix it.” This all taught me that my opinions, views, and needs were all extraneous issues, and I became just another mouth to feed. The room-mate. I gave myself the nick-name “Paycheck”, because that felt like the only reason I was kept around.

I changed my outlook on intimacy – I changed my expectations and taught myself that what I wanted in the bedroom did not matter. I stopped wearing the wedding ring (as did she, for the same reason as the OP). I told myself that all that mattered was staying the course I was on, no matter how shitty, because I did not want a divorce (having seen what it did to several of my friends and their children), and that in a few years I would be able to walk away with less impact on everyone, as long as I stayed the course. We did try counseling, as several in this thread mention, and it really did not help at all. I am sole-breadwinner, so I have more to lose in the event of a split (e.g. permanent alimony), so I nixed the idea altogether for a host of reasons. I decided to enrich myself and my life by pursuing things that made me happy as hobbies, as opposed to dwelling on the problems with the marriage. I could keep the status quo for a while, be with my kids, and keep everything stable, for everyone. I lived like this for years. I accepted my fate and gave up on improving things.

A few years ago, she decided she was interested in me again. I do not know what prompted it. She started taking care of herself better, got rid of all the mommy clothes and bought nicer outfits. She wanted to go out more, do things with me, and actually listened to me once in a while. Unfortunately, this upswing in her interest coincided with the death of my parents over a couple year span, so I was not a good partner at that point.

Today we have reached some sort of détente. The status quo is better now than back then, and the kids are bigger and less of a demand for her. Things are manageable, and there is less conflict and more fun between us. I am starting to remember the one I married, but we have a ton of work to do to keep things good, and make them last.

My point of this ramble is that no matter how shitty your situation is (unless there is violence or substance abuse in the equation), a stint in the marital doldrums can be overcome with time, and not being selfish – you just have to keep focused on staying the course, if that is what you want.

149

I haven’t read the whole thread, but here’s my advice:

When my parents split and finally got a divorce it was the best damn thing that ever happened in my life. “Holding it together for the kids” is possibly the worst fucking thing anyone has ever thought was a good idea, ever. I was a teenager at the time.

Divorce does not necessarily shatter a kid’s world and lead them into a life of drugs, jazz, liquor and homosexuality (ok, well I’m gay so maybe that last bit is true, har har).

The day my parents split up and stopped arguing all the damn time, and they were both genuinely happier, healthier people was probably a defining moment in my life and I don’t want to think about what life would be like if my folks were still together.
Though you are definitely going to get your clock cleaned in the divorce. My dad did. And he deserved it, at that. And it sounds like, you probably do too a little bit. An affair is a lame, cowardly thing to do.

But affair or no affair, get the damn divorce already.

150

I don’t know if this is obvious or not so just in case I will post it.

Do you ever watch all of the kids while your wife has time for herself? Do you know what a typical day is like for her?

She could very well be in crisis mode if she has to care for several young children every single day. If she does not feel like she can even take care of herself, this could explain her “what do you expect attitude” and weight gain and even why she didn’t get the rings resized. I would not take more than one child on an errand like that.

Even if you do end up divorced, you owe it to her to understand what life is like for her.

151

A lot of people are claiming to have expert knowledge here, but it seems for some of them that their personal experiences are coloring their advice.

The situation is simple. If you don’t want to be in your marriage, divorce your wife. Your affair with the other woman is irrelevant to this. She may be there for you, she may not. If you choose divorce, you must certainly act like she does not exist for as long as the legal proceedings last.

But aside from that, you should entertain one question in your mind:

If your marriage is so bad that you would gladly go on the hunt for another partner, even if the the current affair does not work out? Then YES, get a divorce.

Otherwise, think harder.

You should take the current affair out of the equation. If you analyze your marriage and think you should get out of it – regardless of other circumstances – get out of it. If you analyze it on its own terms and it seems ok, no reason to leave.

152

My first thought about all this is:

  1. I highly doubt that the affair will work out as a real relationship. We are talking about 2 married cheaters, each with families, and it is highly likely that neither is completely honest or aware of what is really going on with the other family. One might leave a marriage expecting an easy landing with the other cheater, who then decides not to divorce and indulge the fantasy fully. The married GF might not really want to leave her husband- It’s easy to be a “cake eater” in relationships and entertain fantasy boyfriends when you have a husband/wife at home taking care of real life stuff- or any number of things. For this all to work out, it would take 2 cheaters both agreeing to destroy 2 families and be honest with each other- all over a state of shallow limerance.

I mention all this because I saw a lot of responses that completely took for granted that OP could simply choose between his family and the married GF, as if the married GF is some easy prize that comes wrapped with a pretty bow and no other complications. I don’t really think this guy gets to choose what happens to her family or whether she even wants to be with him in a real relationship- something that is beyond 2 teenagers making out in the park, free from the burdens of anything resembling real life.

  1. Perhaps too late now, but most of the behaviors described from a spouse receiving little or no affection are the exact opposite behaviors that cause attraction. Husbands doing housework and bringing flowers are rarely rewarded with affection- IF the wife isn’t already giving it. If anything, the non-affectionate spouse just takes advantage of the nice gestures. Being a doormat is not attractive.
153

Divorce doesn’t always destroy families. In fact, quite often, after the initial changes and turmoil pass, it can make things better.

My mother died when I was 2 years old. Had my father not divorced his second wife, the one that raised me from ages 5-9, it would’ve destroyed me. She had no idea how to be a loving parent.

Had I not left my husband I would’ve remained miserable and disappointed in a passionless marriage with a man that changed in ways that I could have never predicted. The way I felt in those last 5 years in my relationship reflected in everything I did. How I took care of myself, how I parented, my work…everything. It also affected the kids and my husband in negative ways.
He knew what I was feeling, but wanted to finish raising the kids under the same roof, and then divorce. It made no sense to me. I made a decision and stuck to it.
I tend not to look back on many things. From very early on, my life has been PACKED with constant (and big) changes.

As I stated earlier in this thread - we are all happier now. Everyone adjusted to the change, and welcomed it when we realized that things were progressively getting better.

**We did not destroy our family via divorce - we saved it. **

154

I haven’t read the whole thread, so apologies if this has already been suggested, I think it is a good idea to hire some home help, depending on finances, perhaps a part - time nanny or just getting a cleaner in once a week so that your wife has a chance to focus on herself and she may start to exercise and feel good about herself. It’s a two fold solution, in my opinion, having her more relaxed could make her more receptive to you, which gets your marriage back on track, not fixed, but at the right point for you both to work at it. If, after that you decide to break up, she has had a chance to build her own self esteem and will cope better with a divorce.

Good luck

155

This part is important. These kinds of things are what make people and life interesting.

I think the OP should stick it out. He’s made a ‘for better or worse’ commitment and he’s in the ‘worse’ part- the hard part with small, demanding kids.

His complaints aren’t that she’s bad, evil, cheating, drug or alcohol abusing, gambling, etc. It’s that she gained too much weight, is boring and passionless. These are not big or deal-breaking problems, these are ruts. These are the problems of the demanding job of child raising and can be cured with some effort.

What has the OP done to improve his marriage?

156

You don’t get to decide what other people’s dealbreakers are. And refusing to kiss your spouse is pretty evil.

157

I’m too emotionally wrecked today to comment further on this thread, but I couldn’t help but notice this. From my brief experiences on this board clairobscur is so on the money it’s unreal. For a board which generally leans liberal on social issues, it’s amazing how Puritanical this place is when it comes to relationship advice. I can imagine if, when my ex-wife was cheating on me with a former boyfriend and totally ignoring everything our marriage counselor suggested, I’d come here for advice. I’m sure there would have been a significant number of people asking things like “But have you tried everything to save your marriage? Are you doing enough work around the house, are you initiating things in bed?”

And these same people would have exploded if I’d tried to come here for advice about my polyamorous relationship, I think. “You’ve got to choose one or the other, you can’t be with both of them!” “Uh, you’re not getting this whole ‘polyamory’ idea, are you?”

158

Perhaps, but this guy’s complains are: weight, boredom and passion. All repairable with a little effort.

I am pretty liberal. My philosophy is along the lines of ‘as long as everyone is a consenting adult and not one is harmed, it’s usually good.’

But this guy has three kids, the youngest being three years old. He should do the work of trying to repair problems at home instead of skipping right on to cheating on his wife. In this case, not everyone is a consenting adult and people have the potential of being harmed by his actions. Not cool.

Other folks upthread who report that their or their parent’s divorce was ‘the best thing evah’ didn’t have marriages that suffered from simple boredom.

159

It’s easy to be puritanical on the internet. Real life isn’t as black and white. It’s very possible to be a moral and upstanding person and to have made poor choices.

Regarding the affair that I had, I didn’t wake up one morning and decide to have an affair. The issues in the OP are pretty much what I went through.

Passionless? Check.
Weight gain? Check.
Not wearing rings? Check.

Those and control issues regarding my access to money, spare time, and friends.

One thing that kicked me in the nuts was the year she completely ignored my birthday. No card. No cards from the kids, who were 4 and 2 at the time. It wears away at you insidiously.

Some emails with a former coworker went from, “Hey how’s the new job?” and then progressed into more personal issues, until it was clear something was happening. “Hey, want to meet after work for a drink?” Sure. Why not. It’s only a drink.

A few days later “Hey, want to meet at lunch?” Sure it’s only lunch. Except she didn’t say “for lunch”, she said “at lunch” and the next thing I knew we had arranged to meet in a somewhat deserted beach location. You can guess the rest. I should have backed out at that point. I didn’t and it was a poor choice. I killed this relationship a few months later to really try to focus on my marriage, but things didn’t get any better.

As I mentioned that was pretty much the end of it all, except we did still communicate by email. And then the fateful night when I left my email open. That was not a good day. I’m going through a divorce now, 13 years after that brief affair. I should have pulled the plug way back when, but could not leave the kids. The idea of not seeing them devastated me. They’re 14 and 16 now, and I see have them every weekend. So far, we’re all doing OK.

So, the long and short of it is: don’t be so morally condemning on the internet. You have to walk a mile in the other person’s shoes to know what it’s like. Life isn’t black and white.

160

Have you actually read this thread? For example, the poster who stated (in bold type so you couldn’t miss it) that her parents’ divorce at age nine probably saved her life? The fact that there are kids involved is important, yes. But, again, keeping a bad marriage together for the sake of the kids doesn’t help the kids. I have two stepkids that would attest to that themselves now.

As for your second point, this is not a case of simple “boredom.” The OP has tried for years to get his wife re-interested in their marriage. She rejects the simplest gestures and smallest requests. You know when you take your marriage vows and both parties vow to “love, cherish, and honor” each other? Why is it that only the OP in this thread is being held to that standard? Even my ex made token efforts at showing some affection, even as she was plotting how she could leave me without making a scene or tipping off her friends about her affair. The OP’s wife isn’t even doing that.

As I asked someone else in this thread: what exactly would you do to save this marriage? If the OP’s wife wouldn’t put on a wedding ring, what makes you think she’d agree to counseling? And then what, exactly?