No solid question here, but your opinions please…
i’m married. my wife has not been affectionate or sexual for about 6 years. i love her in other very important ways (she’s an excellent mother for our children, is very supportive of my work, etc.). i’m in love with her, but passion hasn’t been there for a long time. i’ve talked to her many times about changing this, and it isn’t likely to change. (in fairness, she’s unhappy that i work way too much, and we’ve had some past hardships, so she has some validation for her actions.) leaving is out of the question, since i don’t feel that’s best for my children, and as i said, i do love her.
i’ve had an affair of sorts. it’s been very intimate and has gone on 2 years now. however, its over the internet; this girl is a continent away, we don’t know each others last names, phone numbers, addresses, or even cities. she is also married and has no intention of leaving her husband. also, for what it’s worth, i don’t see this girl but every 2-4 weeks; i’m not spending hours with her every day.
what do you think? just curious about a third-partys opinion of this situation.
I think it is an affair - but I wouldn;t condemn you for it. I have two friends in a similar situation - I understand the need for affection and sex within a relationship - its not the be all and end all but it is important.
Maybe you might want to think how your wife would feel if she knew? I assume you are cybering this woman (as you say it has been an intimate relationship) - would your wife considering that cheating? Do you? What would you do if you found your wife was having an intimate relationship with another man on the net? I am not saying any of this to belittle or undermine you - I understand this situation very well.
Also, as I met my bf through the net, I am sensitive when people talk about net relationships… I believe net relationships can be as strong (or even stronger) than “local” relationships - I would be careful if you are thinking that, because its the net, its less important or valid a relationship.
Ultimatley, how do you feel about this situation? Do you think you are having an affair?
I take it by this, that your contact with her is visual, like with an internet camera ?
Does the fact that she is a continent away make any difference to the way you feel about her ?
Has the internet relationship reached a certain level of intimacy and now levelled off, or is it still getting stronger ?
What if she lived in your home town, would you continue the relationship ?
Have you ever considered/tried relationship councelling ?
“i’ve had an affair of sorts. it’s been very intimate and has gone on 2 years now. however, its over the internet; this girl is a continent away, we don’t know each others last names, phone numbers, addresses, or even cities. she is also married and has no intention of leaving her husband. also, for what it’s worth, i don’t see this girl but every 2-4 weeks; i’m not spending hours with her every day.” (Bolding mine)
Are you meeting her face to face every few weeks? Or are you interacting with her on the 'net every few weeks?
Since this is IMHO: IMHO:Unless you two are booking into motel rooms every few weeks, if all you are doing is interacting on the 'net every few weeks, I wouldn’t call it an “affair”.
I don’t see where an exclusively 'net romance would consist of an affair any more than reading a sizzling hot novel and fantisizing about being one of the characters would be considered an affair.
What John Carter of Mars said.
Plus: Withholding affection is a violation of marriage vows. You’ve said she has issues. It really sounds like some sort of counseling is called for. If you are determined to stay together for the children (and I applaud you for that) why not also stay together for yourselves, and the marriage you could have?
Gotta go sixth-grade teacher on your ass: not with your attitude, it isn’t.
As a WAG, knowing diddly about your situation, I suspect that a vacation from the whole family would do your wife a world of good. There are some hints in your post that she may feel like the family employee.
In a conversation about “what is cheating?,” I heard this definition:
If your wife knew about what you are doing and would be traumatized, it’s cheating.
I’m not sure if you care if it’s cheating, but I’d say yes, it is an affair. However, she might just be relieved that you’ve found an outlet for your sexuality that doesn’t threaten her relationship with you, so maybe it’s OK. In fact, IMO, it’s a pretty fair compromise. A different man would have a real-time affair, which would be much, much worse, so I’m not condemning or judging you at all.
Actually, though, I hope you and your wife can figure out a way to make your sex life work again… Thought question: if your wife and you started having sex again regularly, would you still want your cybergirlfriend?
How do you know you’re worth dating? I mean, you have two kids and you have time to piss around on the computer? Ask yourself this: would your cyber friend want someone who sits in a robe in front of their computer from the time they get home to the time they go to sleep? Bump On A Log = Not Attractive.
When’s the last time you scrubbed the bathroom? Do you even know HOW to cook a meal other than to boil pasta & heat up some Ragu? Its April: why aren’t you outside teaching your kids to throw a curve ball or helping them learn to ride a bike? When’s the last time you read to your kids a story? Do you even Know how to separate whites, colours, and permanent press? When’s the last time you’ve actually done it?
Here’s how I see it: you are a lazy bum whose wife gives out no affection because she does everything for you. There are Years of resentment built up in her that you have done Nothing to resolve. Here’s a thought for you: Can you change your office hours or shift? Maybe if you get home 1-2 hours earlier you could use that time to do laundry & clean the house instead of ‘Cybering’ and wanking.
When the kids get home, maybe you could improve your relationship with them (They pick your nursing home, so maybe you just should consider it). Do things with them: Interact with them. Maybe they could help you cook dinner. And when your wife gets home from work, maybe she’ll have enough energy for some sex (assuming you haven’t burned that bridge).
Not really a good one, since it assumes that the wife would only be traumatized by reasonable things. If your wife got traumatized because she discovered you bought a copy of Playboy, it’s hardly cheating.
Not that this is especially relevant; it’s just a piss poor definition.
I think I once started a topic on this or someone did on whether internet romance was considered cheating or not.
I do know one of my best friends went through this & she found a very married guy with a child on the net on another continent. One day, about 4 months later he showed up & asked her to marry him. Which she did.
Upon reading my prior post, I see that it is…over the top. I’m not looking to be banned for flamming. I have stong opinions on the subject which…perhaps have no place here.
Jeah, if you were a very close buddy of mine and had confided this to me at a local bar…I’d probably drag you out to the parking lot, push you up against the wall and scream
“What the Hell are you even Thinking…!? Do you have Any idea what’s going to happen when your wife gets wind of this!? Think of your Kids, for Gods sake…”
But that’s making the issue personal…and I don’t have the right to do that since I don’t know you. I urge you strongly to end the chat-room stuff. I urge you strongly to work on your marriage. Hard. No matter what you decide, I still hope that things work out for you.
While this isn’t an affair in the strictest sense, it’s certainly ignoble. I would almost be more understaning of you had an affair that was physical, because I would see that as filling a void that you aren’t filling with your wife.
Instead, you’ve now created second relationship centered on emotional / intellectual intimacy, which you already have with your wife. From what I can tell, you love your wife, but she’s not screwing you, therefore you went out and bonded with another woman who is also not screwing you. I don’t get it. I think you’ve betrayed your marriage vows (assuming they were traditional) in a very real way. A marriage is about the bond you form with your spouse, a bond that transcends all other relationships and precludes similar bonds to other people.
While being physically intimiate is a VERY important compenent in marriage for most people, it is not the only thing by which you measure fidelity. You are not “honoring and cherishing” your wife, you are not forsaking all others. Again, I am assuming you entered the marriage under traditional expectations/vows. In short, you’re being faithless, whether or not you’ve actually had sex this other woman.
Get counseling, either alone or better yet with your wife. Work on bringing romance back into your marriage-- if you’re not ready to leave the marriage, work on making it fulfilling for both of you, rather than looking only to fulfill yourself.
I know how hard it can be to have something as easy as internet sex when it’s so easy to get to. It can be hard to turn that temptation down
But I must implore you, you have kids and a wife, and you say that everything is fine except for the sex. I must ask you one question:
Have you tried talking to her about it? maybe she’s unaware this is a problem. Maybe she assumes that after a while, the marriage turns from a psychial relationship to an emotionally relationship. I’m sure if you talk about it, come clean about everything, and tell her that you want everything to work out in the end:)
Update us man…don’t leave us hanging!:-p
If you don’t mind, could you elaborate on this? Based on the quoted passage, you have my deepest sympathies.
I can understand what jeah is going through. My wife is not very affectionate either. And no, I am not a lazy bum. I am very active in taking care of the house and children. We often do things together and have a great time. But she just isn’t interested in sex all that much.
It’s kind of like being married to someone who’s ambivalent about eating ice cream. You try vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, on a cone, in a cup, on a stick, melted, etc. but nothing gets her to really enjoy it. She’d be just as happy not eating ice cream.
We’ve talked about it, but not much ever changes. It’s like, how do you get someone to love ice cream? Either they do or they don’t.
So jeah could be a great, loving husband that is stuck in a bad situation. There’s a lot of reasons to stay together even if there is no affection.
The internet relationship may or may not be an affair, but it could certainly cause his marriage to break up from it. If jeah’s wife is like mine, she might not really understand that sexual desire is a physical need. So she might not understand the emptyness that jeah is trying to fill. So I feel that jeah is violating the trust of the marriage, but I can’t fault him too much for it. It takes a lot of fortitude for someone to forgo their sexual desires just to stay in a relationship.
filmore and jeah, I feel so bad for you. I don’t admit to a lot of personal things on this board but I will say I know what you’re going through. It’s tough. Damn tough.
thanks all for the comments and (mostly) kind wishes. and for those with harsh words, thanks too. i’m not looking for justification or encouragement here, just third-party opionions. here are some some things to clarify some of the questions asked so far:
as far as the “girlfriend”: there is no cam, although i know what she looks like and she i. we’ve never met face to face, and never will, because that is how both of us want it. in fact, i find it comforting that there are real-world reasons why we wouldn’t be compatible that disolve over the internet. for example, she smokes and loves cats, and i despise both. there are other such examples. there is cyber.
two important answers to questions about my wife: yes, she would absolutely consider this an affair. no, i don’t. i consider it a step above phone sex. but… i’m not denying it is one, and that it is potentially very hurtful to those i love. and the fact that i know my wife would consider it an affair means something to me, and that makes it more “affair-ish” in my mind.
over the years, i have tried to resolve this with my wife many times, and it hasn’t changed. filmore really hit it on the head. she honestly doesn’t get how important this is to me (and not just sex, affection, and need as well). as i said, she has very valid issues with me as well; you’re only hearing one side of this, but i am trying very hard to give a fair assessment of things. her biggest beef with me is my work; i work alot. partially because my work is important to me (this is the reason she sees), but also (and i claim this is the real reason) because i don’t have a choice. the company i’m at is my own, and with the economy lately, it’s been very much on the edge of dying, and if that happened many people would be hurt, including my wife and kids financially. i do spend weekends (mostly) with my family, and also see them for an hour or less every morning and usually a couple hours at night. many nights however, i’m at work till very late.
quietman1920 had some valid questions, and though i’ve not been there for my family as much as i should’ve, i’m far from the description provided. yes, my wife has scrubbed the bathroom floor and i haven’t. no, i enjoy cooking more then her, and cook when i can (though she does most of it). i make pancakes with my kids every weekend, and do plenty of outside things with them; last weekend, we spent both days planting a big vegetable garden for example. i spend a lot of time doing educational things with my kids, reading, astronomy, other things important in their lives. i drive them to school most mornings and i’m ALWAYS there for school events, teachers conferences, etc. most importanly, my wife would say that i’m an excellent father.
yes, she does the laundry, she does most of the household things. but that’s partially because being a mom is her full-time job, by both of our choices (mainly hers, but i completely agree with the value of it). although in fairness, she does feel unappreciated in her work and i probably don’t do as much to express my appreciation as i should. not to say i do nothing, and not to say i don’t actually appreciate it.
thanks again for your continued comments…
jeah and filmore (and JuanitaTech?), I also have some knowledge of what you speak. Unlike Beadlin, I can see where a sexless, on-line affair fulfills a need. In my case, at least, I internalize my wife’s lack of desire as a lack of desire, and need, for me. I can see where having someone need you, even in a sexless manner, fulfills a real need to be needed.
However, it is an affair, and yours is not really sexless. You are getting excited by someone who actually exists, and you know your wife would be upset.
I really can’t offer many solutions. From what I’ve read, studies indicate that children are better off if their parents are in a nonviolently bad marriage, than if the parents divorce. If your wife is like mine, she won’t even go to counseling or read some books, and talk never really changes anything. My wife can change for two weeks, but, as you said, I can’t make her crave ice cream. I’m still trying to resolve this issue myself, but I have not had an affair.
One book that some friends have recommended is “Her Needs, His Needs How to Affair Proof Your Marriage” (or perhaps in the reverse order). It goes into the fact that passion is a real need for men, and the men in passionless marriages are very prone to affairs. The affair stuff is used as a motivating factor - for both spouses. Of course, I haven’t bought it yet, either.
Here’s the author’s website. Worth the visit. In the book, and on the website, the author discusses the importance of emotional needs. Sex happens to be one of them.
So, let me get this straight. Your wife has issues with the amount of time you spend at work, and you have issues with the frequency your wife screws you. You’ve asked and asked for her to remedy your[/i[ issue, to no avail. Out of curiosity, what have you done to remedy [i[her issues?
Let me tell you, if you’ve not made any effort (or at least no effort she can see) to address her needs, she’s not gonna feel inclined to address yours. Trust me. If your wife is feeling lonely and unappreciated, she’s not going to want to fuck you. Her mindset just isn’t conducive to horniness, and if she feels like she’s way down your list of priorities, she’s not likely to indulge you just to make you feel better.
Quit cybering this other woman, and pour that time and energy into nurturing your emotional relationship with your wife. The more you bond with her (as a woman, not as a mom or housewife or any of her other roles in life), the better things are likely to be in the bedroom.
Harsh advice, but right on.
Try a simple experiment for three months: Treat your wife the way you’d like to be treated. Get home at a reasonable hour, fix dinner a couple times a week, wash clothes, etc. Bring some flowers to her, you know, the whole routine. Unless she is incredibly self-centered, this will work.
Also, ditch the cyber-tramp, IMHO this is cheating.
I’d also like to suggest a book : The Gift of Fatherhood by Aaron Haas. I found it to be a great help with both parenting and marriage.