Moral/Ethical Dilemma

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

A FOAF asked me about this and I told her I would put the question to the Teeming Millions.

Say you have a couple. They have been married a few years. Marriage is good but she feels like something sexual is missing. She begins frequenting chat rooms and talking with a specific guy on a regular basis. They have done the cyber-sex thing but mostly they just flirt and talk with each other. Now, the problem is that she is starting to fantasize about this chat guy while having sex with her husband. Apparently, she even went so far as to actually utter his name during sex the other night. Her husband did not hear it but she is afraid that next time he will.

Here is the problem. Well, actually two problems. First, is what she is doing with the other guy cheating? She has never met him and due to the circumstances, it isn’t likely she ever will. But she has developed a friendship (at least on her side) with this man and it is rather sexually based.

Second, since she has been fantasizing about this other guy, her sexual experiences with her husband have improved. Only, it isn’t because she is attracted to her husband–it is because she is imagining having sex with this other man. Now, should se continue to do this if it helps her sex life or is it too dangerous given the fact that she has already used the other man’s name in sex with her husband?

What say the Teeming Millions? Cheating? And should the fantasizing stop?

2

In my humble opinion,

Is it cheating? In a limited sense, yes. She might never have met or intend to meet this man, but she is still in a sex-based relationship with someone who is not her partner.

Should she stop? Definitely, or at least draw back and try to keep it as a platonic relationship (easier said than done, I know). I bet she never intended for it to be a sexual relationship, or one in which she fantasises about this person while with her partner, when she started speaking to the guy. Although she might deny it now, it may well develop further in the future.

Of course, it’s not the end of the world, and this is all depending on how serious she is about her current partner. If she’s unhappy with that relationship then maybe she should focus on changing that rather than on the internet friend. But IMHO she is engaging in a non-platonic relationship with someone who she’s fantasising about, and even without a physical element that’s cheating in my book.

3

I agree with Matt. She may not be physically cheating but if she is calling out someone else’s name in bed well then I don’t think that is good even if the husband doesn’t hear. And since when does the sex have to be good with someone for the relationship to work? It’s just my point of view if you love someone enough to marry them you take the good with the bad. If they can’t control their own desires EVEN IF it’s just having “cybersex” with another person then they aren’t emotionally and mentally ready for a commitment. She needs to either work on the problem with her hubby and just be friends with this other guy or get out of the marriage if she can’t deal with it. Fantasizing is one thing but cybering is completely different and it’s just wrong.

4

Lame. I don’t care if she knows his name or mutters or utters it… she shouldn’t be out hooking around with a steak at home… if you get what I mean.

I don’t care if you are married or committed, you shouldn’t be out hawking your wares on the net if you’ve got someone at home. That’s cheating. Call it virtual reality if you will but you are looking outside the marriage… ernt! WRONG!

If I had someone at home I may continue to flirt on-line but it would never go further than that. Hey, I wouldn’t like someone to do it to me therefore I wouldn’t do it to my other… you know?

Tit for tat or I wouldn’t like that…

5

Oh, dear lord. It’s my research topic for my Honor’s scholarship. I swear. A little background:

My interest in this very topic-online affairs-came about because I do play in several online RPGs and I was astounded by just how often sex came into the games. It seemed to be a certain genre with players of the 26-40 age bracket, usually married, mostly professional people: lawyers, web designers, accountants, people with what I consider Real Jobs. Like I said, I found it odd, I needed a research topic related to my major for this scholarship, so I started researching it.

Here’s what I’ve found so far: Of the married people who do enagage in regular online sex and hide it from their spouses, most of them are having martial problems. Some of them are just “trying to be considerate of their spouses feelings” (my theory is that those people know their spouses won’t appreciate/understand and don’t want to fight about it). Of the married or involved people who do have SOs that know what’s going on, of the vast majority that I have actually had a chance to interview, THEIR SOs DON’T CARE. That includes mine, by the way, though mine is mostly in those games I mentioned. But those are healthy relationships, I should point out and, using my relationship as an example, the SO actually thinks it’s kinda cool. Hell, sometimes I ask his opinon of my posts.

Do I think it’s cheating? Obviously not. IMO it’s a way to have a little added spice, a little variety, without actually cheating physically. So she fantasizes about this guy. Big deal. Everybody fantasizes at one time or another. I’m sure the husband has about some woman at work, some hot number he passed on the street, a model, an actress. We covered this in Sociology for three freakin’ semesters. Fantasies are good. Especially after a few years when, let’s face, you get bored and wonder what you’re missing. If it’s making her sex life better and she loves her husband, well, I don’t really see a problem.

I your friend is having real trouble with her marriage, if her internet friend is filling a void she feels is in her life, they should definately get some couple therapy. It’s likely that either the husband doesn’t realize there’s a problem, or he is aware somewhere subconsciously and just doesn’t know how to deal with it. Believe me when I tell you that when the sex life dies, no matter how much they loved each other in the beginning, it just doesn’t hold together without more than just a few anniversaries between them.
More than likely the Internet affair will run its course and they will end up platonic friends. That’s what I’ve discovered in my research so far, anyway. Which I freely admit is far from complete.

6

I say it’s cheating. While she isn’t physically cheating on her husband, she is cheating in her heart. She is seeking sexual fulfillment with another man.

If you want my opinion, an I’ll assume you do, the woman should try to improve her sex life with her husband. If there is a void in her sex life, she should try to get her husband to fill that void, not another man.

7

I don’t know if I’m the most objective person but I’ll give it a shot.

Is it cheating ? It’s a fine line to walk and her husband (if he knew) might consider it to be so. In my opinion if her heart’s not getting involved with her online friend, then it’s just fantasy, interactive though it may be.

And fantasy is Good, Healthy even. I have rather detailed fantasies myself and when used they only serve to improve my sex life with my SO. It’s a win-win situation, but then again, I don’t go about calling out other men’s names.

Your FOAF might want to take a hard look at her feelings for this online friend and see if they have moved past mere friendship.

8

Just my opinion, but…

I don’t know if any of you guys are married, but I can tell you that a marriage isn’t always June and Ward Cleaver. I don’t know anyone who has a truly perfect marriage in every aspect, and believe me, there are many aspects. You might date someone, and if things don’t develop the way you’d like, you just break it off. There are far too many legal ramifications in a marriage, many times children are involved as well. It isn’t as easy to just dismiss some failed aspect and start over again.

I know married couples who have great sex, but don’t have certain other things in common. I know couples who get along great, are great friends, share common interests, but, for whatever reasons, sex has diminished over the years. It almost becomes a duty. Should these people just get a divorce simply because the sex isn’t there? Yet, these people still have needs as sexual beings. What are they supposed to do?

I’m not saying that married people should go out and physically cheat - if it gets to that point, perhaps a divorce, amicable seperation, or some sort of agreement is in order. But if evilbeth’s FOAF, or anyone else for that matter, can get some type of fulfillment through a cyber affair, what’s the harm? If it acts as an aid in fostering the sexual aspect of a marriage, how is it any different than, say, using a vibrator, or role playing? Many marriages feature role playing - in that case, who is your partner having sex with, you, or the fantasy character you pretend to be? Ultimately, if it keeps the marriage together, it has to at least be considered as a valid tool.

Whether or not one spouse knows what the other one is doing is up to the other spouse. Only they know the particulars of what can be safely said or admitted to. As Arden_Ranger pointed out, some people don’t care and can handle it, while others would flip out.

To answer the OP is impossible. For one thing, much more information is necessary. On the surface, I say it’s not cheating. I would try to refrain from calling out anyone’s name, but it’s already been done. My guess is that in time, she will tire of the situation with her husband, or of the lack of physical fulfillment with her online friend, or both. A solution will need to be found, possibly via marital counseling, or even divorce or seperation.

Sooner or later the facts will surface in this relationship - they always do. A realization will come at that point, but what the solution would be can only be decided by the couple. We can offer all the opinions we want, but none of us know the complete story. It’s like that old Indian saying about not criticizing your neighbor until you’ve walked a mile in their moccasins.

9

Is it cheating? IMO, yes, it is. It’s not cheating physically but it’s cheating mentally and emotionally. She’s having sexual thoughts and sexual feelings that are directed towards someone other than her spouse, therefore, it’s cheating. I don’t think it doesn’t matter that she’s never going to meet this man IRL, that’s besides the point.

Instead of cybersexing with this guy she needs to try to work on her marriage… whether it be through counseling or some other means. Turning to the net and cybering with a stranger isn’t going to make her marriage better, it’s just going to make sex with her husband better because she’s fantasizing that she’s with someone else. I wouldn’t want to have sex with my SO knowing that he’s pretending to be with someone else. I’m sure that if her husband knew what was going on he wouldn’t like it and her continuing to do it isn’t going to make her marriage work!

10

While I don’t consider ‘cyber sex’ itself to be cheating, the situation that you are describing involves and emotional element or a personal element which pushes it over the line into infidelity. So IMHO, yep this is cheating.

I’d be very concerned with the elements of the marriage that allowed such a scenario to develop. Nobody wants to live an unsatifying life… and I personally think it important that life is satisfying… on all levels that are important (to the individual). As far as ‘marriage’ goes, this involves 1)choosing a partner that is compatible, and 2)making sure that SO remains compatible. People grow and change over time, and so do relationships. Change and growth are often painful, and/but can often be directed and controlled.

Sounds like your friend is at a crossroads. Justify this affair and let it continue or make a new commitment and effort towards the marriage.

11

What’s the harm in actual cheating, if the sppouse never finds out?

The harm, of course, is that you’re risking pain and anger if the behavior is revealed - the same harm that’s risked with cybersex.

In my view, anything remotely sexual you do with another person that you deliberately hide from your spouse, and that you know your spouse would be upset with, if discovered, is cheating. And it’s wrong.

Now, that said… if your spouse and you both agree that cyber flirtation means nothing… then it’s not cheating. In the same way, I suppose, if you and your spouse agree that picking up one-night stands on a business trip means nothing… then it’s not cheating. The key is disclosure. Cheating arises from the furtiveness, not the actual behavior.

  • Rick
12

The key distinction, IMO, is the interactive element. We all fantasize about other people from time to time, but the other person has no idea I’m even thinking about her. She may be a movie star, or someone I had the hots for before I met my wife, or whatever.

When one person is knowingly aiding another person to orgasm in an interactive manner, then that’s sex - be it phone sex, cybersex, or the real thing. And if you’re in a relationship where the understanding is that you’re not having sex with anyone besides each other, then that’s cheating.

Dire Wolf asks:

They’re supposed to work these things out as a couple, is the key thing. If they mutually decide cybering is OK, then that’s their choice. But it’s not something one party can decide unilaterally.

FWIW, Mrs. F. and I are coming up on our tenth anniversary, and I agree that marriage isn’t all Ward and June; it’s a very complex thing, and each marriage has its own unique challenges. But the deal on marriage is that you work things out together. Cybering without the other partner’s OK is an abandonment of that ethic.

13

I don’t think of cybersex as cheating. Granted, calling out Mr Internet’s name in bed is not a good thing, but really how different is fantasizing about him in bed as opposed to some Hollywood actor or rock star, or even the hot little number that bagged your groceries? Besides, this place is full of ‘crushes’ and flirting. Is that cheating too? I mean, what’s a crush without a little fantasy? If so, then there are 5 pages of cheaters (including me) in the most recent I Have A Crush thread.
I think if two married people (if Mr Internet is also married) can spice up their sex lives with their real life partners by cybering together, than good for them. There is no harm in it as long as it’s confined to cybersex, and as long as no one decides they are feeling more than lust. If Mr Internet lives a million miles away, and there is no chance of lust getting the better of them and it turning into real sex, I say go for it.
The real problems would start when it moves from harmless fantasy into real longing and stronger feelings for each other. I don’t think it’s healthy for a married person to think they might be falling in love with someone over the internet, but like I said before, as long as it stays a fantasy, it’s fine.
Just my opinion.

Rose

14

I would have to say that since she is in a reciprocal ralationship with this person, even though there has been no actual physical contact, yes, it’s cheating. If my husband did this, and I became aware of it, I would be terribly hurt. I can safely say that he would feel the same way if I was having a cybersexual affair with someone else. IMHO, she should stop the cyber relationship at once, if she wants to save her marriage. Sounds to me like she’s on a slippery slope.

15

There is no single definition of cheating. In some marriages even thinking sexually of another person is cheating; in other marriages you can have sex with other people so long as you keep the spouse informed.

What it comes down to is that marriage is an agreement between two people that creates certain rules about how those two people will behave. Unfortunately most couples leave these rules unspoken; to the detriment of their relationship. Regardless, marriage is not Calvinball where you get to seek new rules or technicalities that will allow the behavior you are already doing.

Your FOAF obviously thinks she is violating the rules of her marriage. This is made obvious by the fact that she desparately hopes her husband will never find out. When you start hiding big things from your spouse you are breaking the rules of the relationship and you know it.

The person your FOAF should ask about this is her husband. If he thinks it is cheating then the FOAF has a question to answer: can I live within the rules of my relationship, and if not, what do I do about it? On the other hand, he might find it terribly erotic.

Ignoring the sexual aspect, though, the lack of honesty being shown by the FOAF indicates many bad things about the state of her marriage.

16

So we’ve essentially got (give or take) 11–definitely cheating and should stop and 3–maybe/maybe nots.

The general consensus among non-on-line people I have asked is a “definitely cheating” vote.

Interesting views here. this is why I enjoy asking the Teeming Millions more than John Q. Public!

Hmmm…anyone else have any input?

17

Yes. It is a level of intimacy that you shouldn’t be exploring with other people if you’re committed to a single person.

No. There’s other ways to help your sex life besides cheating on your partner. Likewise, I doubt the husband would feel thrilled to learn that he has some other guy to thank for his “improved” sex life. Dangerous has nothing to do with it; it’s about morals, not whether you’re going to get caught or not.