I'm joining my first ever band. Any tips?

Cafe Society
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(If this is a MPSIMS thread instead, feel free to move it, mods)

In an ongoing list of “things I should have thought about doing in High School,” I decided last week that I wanted to start a band. I studied musicology in undergrad and grad school, but my performance always lagged behind. Got an invite from a buddy I took Latin class with to join his band. He sent me a bunch of “Animals of Leaders” to give me an idea of the sound they’re going for.

Now, I’m a classically trained pianist (grade 8 RCM…ish), and I sing in a church choir. I listen to popular music on my iPod, but I don’t know JACK about prog metal.

I’m probably in way over my head, and I fully expect to make a lot of mistakes and trip-ups. I’ve asked before on this board for tips about playing chords and trying to do accompaniment stuff, but any advice this time around? What can I do to make this experience more pleasant for myself and my future band mates? :slight_smile:

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Enjoy. Relish. Experience. Love. Devour. Infest your soul with the spirit of the music while dominating your intellect with the foundational framework. Listen. Listen some more. Explore the corners. Set the tone and follow the lead. Keep listening. Let the sonic ecstasy ease through your fingertips. Hear the feedback before it’s spoken; speak the feedback before saying anything. But most of all, enjoy.
What, not everyone is in a jamband?

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Be as nice as possible, and show up to practice.

I’ve never been in a band that threw someone out because they made mistakes. Usually when someone gets asked to leave, it’s for personal reasons. The few times I’ve seen people get booted for making mistakes, they were habitual mistakes of the nature that makes the whole song crash. Not being at practice means that nobody knows of your horrible song-crashing habits until you’re in front of an audience.

Of course, all of the bands I’ve been in were at a different level of musicianship than the folks in their example band.

ETA: Oh, and if you know classical, then you know %90 of prog metal, I think. It’s mostly the same idea, only fast.

ETA2: NO MATTER HOW BIG YOUR MISTAKE IS, DON’T STOP. You can work out what you were doing wrong after the song is over, and then play the whole damn thing again. You probably know this from your previous experience, but to get it right, you’re going to have to play that song until you’d rather play something else.

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You didn’t mention whether or not you have much experience in playing with other musicians, so I’ll assume you don’t.

The biggest problem I’ve had with keyboardists has had nothing to do with their skill; rather, it’s been their “soloist” mindset. Most classically-trained pianists are accustomed to playing alone, and altering tempos and inserting dramatic pauses (along with other stylistic choices) as the mood strikes them. While that kind of thing is perfectly acceptable during a solo performance, it will aggravate your bandmates to no end if you do it when playing with a group.

Playing in a band isn’t the same as accompanying a choir. You have to constantly be watching and listening to what your bandmates are playing, and learn to give and take clear cues when you want to change things up.

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You’re right. Most of experience is plodding out Bach chorales at a steady beat for a choir to sing. This is going to be a big change.

Thanks for all the tips so far, gang!

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First if all, it’s “Animals as Leaders”, and secondly that is some really advanced shit.

I’ve been in many bands and consider myself pretty experienced, but I can’t play those drum tracks. Not without a whole lot of practice.

If that’s the band they had you study, these guys are going to be perfectionists, or maybe misguided shredders that like “djent” but don’t consider it a genre.

Accept constructive criticism, and give it. You’ll know very quickly if you and the other guys mesh.

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I’m blaming that typo on the phone. Either that or it’s representative of my pending failures in a band. :smiley:

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Leave space for the others. If they, in turn, leave space for you, stay in the band.

Cooperation, not competition, is the basis of everything good the human species has ever produced.

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Am I expected to improvise, or do people in these sorts of bands read music, lead sheet or otherwise?

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Good advice so far.

Differently groups approach learning different ways. The way my most recent band approached it:

  • Come up with a list of maybe 5 songs that folks are willing to try. It is preferable if they are on simpler side - not a lot of time changes and fancy crap. Something that has a known structure and a clear groove, so most folks have a solid grasp of them.

—> ETA: I then go online and find TABs/chord charts for the songs. Just something with lyrics and chords across the top. I then try that chord chart myself because MANY are totally wrong. Once I get one that is decently correct, I send it out. So if everybody shows up with 5 1-page lyric+chord charts, you have a good start…(and for what it is worth, if you get identified as "the guy who thinks about the songs, finds the chords, checks them and sends them out beforehand, you end up having a lot more influence about your song choices ;))

  • Go through your basic parts before hand. Focus on the rhythm/groove while you play - NOT the single-note fills or improv’d leading. If you are a keyboard player, play, I don’t know, some Rolling Stones that has keyboard in it - you are just playing nice, big blocky R&B rhythm chords; nothing fancy and a driving groove that should be the focus of your attention.

  • When you get together, someone nicely acts as Field General - hey, let’s try this song first. If one instrument drives the groove, let that person establish it and fall in behind them. Don’t worry about perfect song-starts - those come much later. Just get someone playing (to continue to use the Stones illustratively) to play the riff from Satisfaction or Brown Sugar and let everyone fit in.

  • THen - either stay on that groove and let solo instruments have a bit of fun leading - that way everyone gets a feel for the groove - or, if the change from riff to chorus is super clear - look at everybody and yell “get ready to change!” and try changing and see who goes along.

  • You MUST let the groove play and breathe for a while - having said that, while you are getting started, if you need to stop and coordinate, do so in a super-friendly way “Okay - so we do that twice and then move to the other part?” (even if you know the song does it 3 times; just go with it - the point is to do it together for now). Once you have it worked through, just groove for a while.

  • Then - stop and ask: does this groove/song work for us? If not - MOVE ON. Just be done. Come back to it in a month if you really were hoping you guys could play it. If the song DOES work, did you get a sense for who is playing what bits and what you need to work on? Cool, WRITE IT DOWN (one of you has to keep notes) and move on.

Best of luck and report back. And, as the others have said, play LESS. The biggest difference in a band is that you aren’t expected to full up the whole sound.

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Rehearsal is NOT the time for band members to learn their parts. The umpteenth time I have to remind you what the chords are, or where the breaks are, will annoy the shit out of the rest of the band. Practice your part on your own time, come prepared and on time, don’t be one of those “always missing rehearsal at the last minute” guys. Be a pro, in other words. The fact that it’s a small-time, local endeavor shouldn’t change that. Don’t be one of the squirrelly undependable guys.

At the point you’re asked to join the band, ask what the band is all about. Everybody should be on the same page, more or less. All the bands I’ve been in have been toe-tapping rock and roll, with an emphasis on classic rock, but open to newer tunes that fit in with that vibe. We wanted the bar up and dancing, singing along. It’s annoying as hell to have that one guy who wants to do a heavy metal set, or a bunch of prog rock. Nothing wrong with that, but you’re in the wrong band, dude!

It really helps to have certain rules–e.g., we’ll jam for 15 minutes at the start of rehearsal, but then down to business. Rehearsal is to work on stuff, to be ready for a gig. If every song turns into a 10-minute jam, it easily ends up being 2 or 3 hours where nothing got done AGAIN! Try not to just start something for the hell of it, however cool the tune or lick is, because everyone jumps in, then it’s another 5 or 10 minute unproductive run, and we STILL haven’t gotten down that other tune we’ve been working on.

Wow, that all sounds pretty anal. But the fact is, all these rules are broken, nobody joins a band to be in a Marine unit–so long as it’s the exception, don’t sweat it. But if you want to gig, you have to work, so that does require a certain discipline. When you hit the big-time, then you can be a prima donna! :smiley:

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Don’t ask them to let your girlfriend join the band.

Don’t date any other of the band members.

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Well, that depends on the folks you’re playing with. Most rock players don’t read, but I’m betting these guys do read in some form. Considerate band members will have written out or printed some form of notation for the songs they want to do (at least a chord listing, as mentioned above). However, that’s rare in my experience. Usually if I’m going to work with an established group of folks, I’ve been given either a song list or a recording of them to work on prior to meeting with them. When I’ve worked on originals with people, it’s usually been that they’ll simply tell everyone the key and the changes before hand, perhaps run through it once themselves, then on the next run through we’re usually expected to improvise, or at least follow. If that works well enough, then you start hammering out the details.

But again, my experience is for fairly simple rock music, where the rules of the genre are fairly well established; and where they aren’t, mayhem is acceptable. I’m guessing that these guys have some sort of notation for the stuff they’re working on. The example band seems pretty intricate.

(And on preview, John is absolutely right. Both of these are poison for bands.)

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I’m presently single, and it’s all dudes in the band, so we’re fine on that front, lol.

Not really sure what constitutes a “rhythm chord,” so unless it just means pounding the shit out of block chords, I’ll Google it when I get off work. :slight_smile:

Thanks for the advice re: professionalism. Like I said before, I’ve worked with church choirs, and still do. Regardless of size, I’m usually very good for going to practice, and getting my sheet music prepared. But like all things in life, there’s definitely room for improvement on that front.

I will report back!

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Typically, in the bands I’ve played with (all rock of some type of another, from heavier rock to “jam band” to indie rock), there is some amount of improvisation involved. As to how much you improvise depends on the material. In the jam band, we all had solos, so a lot of improvisation was expected. In the indie rock band, everything was pretty well orchestrated, but there still was a lot of room for playing around. I typically wouldn’t embellish or improvise on thematic melody lines, but for “rhythm”/comping type parts, I’d just keep the feel and play whatever fits. It was similar from gig to gig, but one day I might do a fill one way, another day another, I might play the chord with slightly different voicings, etc. But that’s how all the players were.

I would think a prog rock band would have a lot of the melody lines strictly scripted, but room for embellishment and improvisation. If there’s a keyboard solo (and in my familiarity with prog, there usually is,) that’s where you do your full-on improvisation thing. I would just play the stuff “as written,” in so far as much as the songwriter has an idea for what they want the keyboard to do, at first until you get a feel for the song and the notes under your fingers. If the songwriter doesn’t know what they want the keys to do, you might get general stylistic descriptions like “something repetitive and rhymthic/think Stereolab” or "some melodic strings, like the Cure’s ‘Just Like Heaven’ " or something in that nature, and you kinda try to suss out what it is in the songwriter’s head. Or you come up with your own ideas and bounce it off of them.

I find the collaborative process a lot of fun and prefer it to playing on my own. Just don’t overplay. Sit back and leave room for the other instruments. When you’re in a lead role, you can be more assertive, but when you’re in a rhythm track role, hang back a bit and give the lead instruments room to play.

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Oh, and as far as sheet music, none of the bands I played in had sheet music. One project I was briefly involved in had lyrics and a chord chart, but that’s as much written music as I’d ever see. Typically, I’d get a demo tape or some kind of recording, or, if not, at practice the guitarist might tell me the chords which I’d either memorize or quickly jot down in my own shorthand on a notepad, and we’d go from there. Even though many if not most of the musicians I played with could read music, I’d never gotten sheet music when playing in a rock band.

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I agree. However, if this is the sound they’re going for, it may be a necessity at some point. Time signature and feel changes all over the place, technicality and musicality fighting for dominance.

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I tried to listen to some of that Animals as Leaders stuff, but I couldn’t take it. I love prog, but dear god I hate that kind of drumming. It’s the same reason I can’t listen to death metal (well, aside from the “growl” vocals). Kick drum(s) going like a machine gun from beginning to end, nonstop fills and cymbal crashes. Ugh. Establish a groove already! I admire the technical brilliance, but it’s just … too much.

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Hmm - okay; I clicked on the link a couple of posts above. antonio107 - a few questions/comments:

  • Where are the keyboards in that band? What are they looking for you to do? If they hand you a tape of Van Halen, and you play saxophone, a good pre-jam question would be “cool - how do you thinking the arrangement - what will you be looking for me to do?” In this case, this looks and sounds like prog metal from a 3-piece of 7-string guitar, 8 string baritone guitar/bass and drums. Where do you fit?

  • If they are looking at you to play the intricate patterns that the guitar player is playing - well, that requires more than a little prep - hours at least. Are you looking to put that time in before jamming?

  • If they are looking at you to play big blocks of chords as a foundation underneath all of that intricate guitar and drum work - okay, cool - do you know those chords? And you would need to have that “how are you thinking about using the instruments?” discussion to clarify your rhythm role - and if they want you to do it, you’d think they would help you with charts.

In a situation where the music is tough, and I am asking an instrument to do something that is either different from the original version or simply doesn’t exist in the original version, I am going to arrange time 1-on-1 time, just with you, to “block out” the songs and ensure we are on the same page in general terms.

Hope this helps.

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Ah, yes. For that kind of music, there probably will be more notation of some sort at least, if not having a complete lead sheet/chord chart type of thing written out. I have no idea how a band like that would do it–whether a fully orchestrated score or some type of short hand notations.