Yes bio-brat, I recognized your hyperbole. I think both your OP as well as the Krauthammer piece (which, although I didn’t pursue your links, I had coincidentally read a few days before) express some angst about the dismal level to which political discourse has descended of late. Why discuss the issues when you think you can sway the vote with a “Dubya’s just dumb” campaign?
My beliefs are based on my reality, and I accord you your space to bring your parts of your reality to the table.
But you decry the straying from the path that occurs in our present level of discourse. When we see ideals trashed for the sake of gains made with Madison Avenue type arguments, of course we despair.
If I can attribute to bio-brat some credibility, I must believe that much of the OP is satire.
Ken Lay? A crook, pure and simple. What part of your conception of conservative politics makes him worth a mention in your rant?
I missed that part of the Republican agenda, maybe it was on Page Two of the Family Values syllabus…
OTOH, I do know several people of the liberal persuasion and one, who was a good friend, just could not avail people of any other persuasion. Fortunately, he’s moved away.
All I know is I’ve been accused once or twice before of wanting to murder children simply because I opposed a new piece of gun control legislation.
No one political spectrum has a monopoly on demonization. Both sides have people who base their opinions on nothing more than “some Liberal Senator said it” or “Rush Limbaugh mentioned it”… and justify these shakey opinions by painting anyone who opposes it (in their mind) as worse than Hitler.
It’s called “Ignorance”. It happens on both sides of the equation (and, yes, it even happens to moderates, too).
Well, I for one would like to know if I’m a liberal or a conservative, because I haven’t the faintest clue. Is there a checklist ? Can somebody tell me what I would have to agree with to be a liberal or a conservative ?
I don’t know if the quote I gave was ever actually said by Churchil but I had always heard it attributed to him. I don’t think that it was meant to be mean as I interpreted to say that it is easy to want to give things away when you don’t own them, it is easy to hate those that have things when you are poor. But when you start to acquire some wealth you want to protect it.
PS. I must have half a brain as I am over 30 and am a centrist.
Okay, I’m losing it here… The Liberal vs. Conservative. thing has been done to death… yawn, argh! .
Both the “Liberal” and the “Consertave” (deep breath) LABELS ARE MEANINGLESS AT THIS POINT! Excuse my shouting…
First of all, are we talking about social, or economic, or moral policy? In real life, the lines are blurred, however much I wish they shouldn’t be… It’s okay to be a fiscal conservative, while at the same time being a social liberal.
The best government is the one that dosen’t mind itself getting overthrown, as it is strong enough to deal with a few Zealots, and soon regains equlibribum…
Thanks for starting this thread. I’m a liberal, and I’m also really tired of conservatives calling liberals stupid and naive, and saying that we don’t have a right to express our opinions. People like us aren’t stupid. We are compassionate, caring, and thoughtful. What’s wrong with caring about people more than the bottom line or the free market?
And to all of you conservatives who think liberals are naive or stupid: Liberals are here to stay. Get used to it!
This is exactly the kind of elitist crap I’m talking about. “Liberals are compassionate, caring, and thoughtful”; the corollary being that conservatives are callous, uncaring, and thoughtless. Ditto the assumption that conservatives don’t care about people.
It would seem to me that sensible liberals and conservatives have the same goals in mind; to create a society that generates the greatest good for the greatest number. I can respect a disagreement over the methods used to achieve this goal–liberals believe in the redistribution of wealth, whereas conservatives believe that the free market, untouched by government interference, will generate wealth and jobs for society overall.
But the assumption of unquestioned virtue by some liberals (WE know what is best for you, so do as we say) is the first step to tyranny. When one’s political philosophy centers on using government as a tool, it 's only a whisper away from using government as a club.
It’s obvious that conservatives think liberals are naive. Think of all the recent absurd conservative hogwash that they’ve attempted to ram down our throats – California created their own energy problems! the tax-cut didn’t hurt the economy! Clinton’s blow jobs caused the stock bubble! And the cowed media repeats this tripe, such media venom-spewers as Krauthammer, Derbyshire, and Coulter.
It couldn’t be more obvious that they think liberals are morons if they paid for a conservative riot down in Florida to fix the last election – which they did, or if they cynically selected minority right-wing judges to pursue their agenda in the judicial branch, which they did, or if they stocked their convention full of black faces to put a fig leaf on their angry white male status, which they did.
How else do they communicate that they think we’re morons? They’ve said, and you can look this up, that they think the average voter won’t remember the Clinton impeachment. I bet they think the same of the tax cut that gave themselves and their rich cronies.
A careful examination of the record shows that the right wing is only looking out for themselves. Not only don’t they care about anyone else, they don’t care about anything else, but themselves, their power, and their money – that’s evil. Why do you think Jim Jeffords switched? It’s obvious as the sun at noon.
Keep insulting the voters intelligence – the left is catching on to what’s going on. The right wing is growing more evil, and the left wing is growing less naive. This will all show up in the November elections, which is why the Republicans are terrified that Bush will lead them over a cliff and are beginning to rebel.
This is classic. bio-brat starts a thread whining about people calling her names for being a liberal and then says this to VW Woman in response to her conservative view of NOW’s abortion stance:
(after Guin tells her she has no brain and "fuck the fuck off”)
I will now use this smiley for the first time ever:
This is a lie. Conservative posters have criticized the tax cuthere.
Cite?
If you would bother to take off your ideological blinkers, you would see that SDMB conservatives disagree with many of the current Bush adminstration’s policies. You will find that many also were critical of the Supreme Court’s actions in the fall of 200, but the reality is that the election was a squeaker–if Gore had won by the same means, would your indignation still burn?
Well, good to know that Sam Stone, Scylla, Anthracite, and DeweyCheatemundHow, among others are powerful, greedy, and evil. Cos, you know, there’s no way for a conservative to have honest disagreements about the tools and philosphy of government.
:putz: ('cept Ah ain’t smiling.)
The result of that thread was a balance of blame between the current administration and the previous one, though certain posters had to be dragged kicking and screaming into that position, so here you are lying, or you haven’t read the thread, same as Maeglin. This doesn’t exculpate the Bush Administration stating that the crisis in California meant they should drill in Alaska. Do you think we don’t remember this?
So the conservative posters here agree with me that the tax cut hurt the economy and the Bush administration has lied about it multiple times. Thanks for the assist. Should I expect an apology for you calling me a liar and posting something so disingenuous?
Go google.
Yes, but you aren’t in power to affect any of the multitude of asinine, ideological, disingenuous policies. They are. Should I bring up the farm bill or the steel tariffs as examples of aprincipled venality of your administration or would that hurt too much? I think I know who wears the blinkers in this debate.
And I’m sorry you ain’t smiling, but I can’t help that. If you take any given poster that seriously, especially since I think my posts and arguments are quite reasonable, you might give yourself a coronary. Since you seem to think my posts are non-reasonable, I don’t see why you bother. That’s what the ignore list is for.
Let me get out my tape measure, here … hmmm … the circumference is approximately 48 inches, and the overall length is roughly … lessee … 290 inches.
I’m impressed, Ace0Spades. With a handle that big, the brush itself must be fairly broad to cover every single conservative. And yet you wield it with abandon. You must work out.
When will anyone realize that stereotypes are bad? When will anyone realize that no ideology has a monopoly on the truth?
What do you mean my adminstration? I voted for Gore. And yes, the SDMB conservatives heave denounced the farm bill and the steel tariffs as a betrayalof a free market economic policy.
Nope.
You’re also lazy. If you make a charge, in this instance that conservatives blamed the recent poor economy on Clinton’s infidelity, it is incumbent on you to present the evidence to back up your statement. If you are too lazy or too stupid to find the evidence, then don’t make the statement in the first place. Expecting the opposition to find the evidence that backs up your case is optimistic beyond words.
A. There’s not much point in only talking to people you agree with.
b. You’re not supposed to talk about that little item–it will bring the mods down on you. And anyway, I don’t believe in it.
