I'm SO sick of hearing "Trump voters are not bad people...we need to empathize with them". FUCK THAT

[Velocity]

Much of this thread is from a majority viewpoint; “The minority needs to come around to our way of thinking.”
To Trump voters, Hillary supporters are the crazies. Imagine that you are in an America where Trump, not Hillary, is the one leading in the polls and having a 90% chance of winning the election. Now imagine that someone says, *“I am tired of hearing about we should sympathize with Hillary supporters and understand their view. What we need to do is educate Hillary supporters out of their ignorance and also scold them for being the crazy out-of-their-mind liberals that they are.” *Do you think it would win you over to their side?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Quartz

I spoke to a Trump voter yesterday. Said voter is voting Trump because of the Supreme Court. Apparently the next president may get four nominations.

Fair enough, for single-issue voters.

[iiandyiiii]

@Velocity

Much of this thread is from a majority viewpoint; “The minority needs to come around to our way of thinking.”
To Trump voters, Hillary supporters are the crazies. Imagine that you are in an America where Trump, not Hillary, is the one leading in the polls and having a 90% chance of winning the election. Now imagine that someone says, *“I am tired of hearing about we should sympathize with Hillary supporters and understand their view. What we need to do is educate Hillary supporters out of their ignorance and also scold them for being the crazy out-of-their-mind liberals that they are.” *Do you think it would win you over to their side?

All groups are equivalent! Pro-segregationist Dixiecrats were the same as anti-segregation Democrats and Republicans! Pro-slavery Democrats were equivalent to Lincoln’s Republican party! Every group has a legitimate and rational point of view that can’t be questioned!

[Czarcasm]

@Velocity

Much of this thread is from a majority viewpoint; “The minority needs to come around to our way of thinking.”
To Trump voters, Hillary supporters are the crazies. Imagine that you are in an America where Trump, not Hillary, is the one leading in the polls and having a 90% chance of winning the election. Now imagine that someone says, *“I am tired of hearing about we should sympathize with Hillary supporters and understand their view. What we need to do is educate Hillary supporters out of their ignorance and also scold them for being the crazy out-of-their-mind liberals that they are.” *Do you think it would win you over to their side?

What is Trump’s “side”? He has spent his lifetime saying anything to get people to sign on the dotted line, so what are his actual policies?

[Czarcasm]

@iiandyiiii

All groups are equivalent! Pro-segregationist Dixiecrats were the same as anti-segregation Democrats and Republicans! Pro-slavery Democrats were equivalent to Lincoln’s Republican party! Every group has a legitimate and rational point of view that can’t be questioned!

It’s a Natural Law, y’know. It is absolutely impossible for one group to be better or worse than any other group, so there is no logical reason to expect your own group to be better than it already is. Et non est, quoque!

[octopus]

@iiandyiiii

Since this is a Trump thread, I thought we were just talking about the US. If your point was about the whole world, then I don’t understand its relevance to this discussion.

Do you feign ignorance or do you miss the context of what you are responding to? Reread the post I was actually responding to instead of always trying to weave in how utterly terrible white supremacy is.

[octopus]

@Maastricht

Octopus, I don’t understand your reaction. I said that it might be worthwhile to try to change media standards. Fear sells; and there is no sanction social, financial or otherwise, against fact-free fear mongering.

The discussion is similar to when feminists tried to ban size zero models from catwalks andtried for more average models in magazines. Granted, that didn’t work either.

But racist and sexist advertising, at least, are nowadays banned from mainstream media.

People or companies voluntarily behaving civilly is fine. Government mandate of such is a step towards tyranny. It’s not for the government to prohibit offensive speech. It’s a travesty it happens in public state universities. Frankly, I have no idea how those policies haven’t been banned as unconstitutional.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@Velocity

Much of this thread is from a majority viewpoint; “The minority needs to come around to our way of thinking.”
To Trump voters, Hillary supporters are the crazies.

To Flat-earthers, people who didn’t grow up with a crippling addiction to paint chips are the crazies.

Do you think it would win you over to their side?

Well, we’ve tried reason. At length. We’ve tried reason. We’ve tried appeals to basic fucking human decency. We’ve tried shame. We’ve tried every tool in the book to convince these fucking crazy people to stop believing things that are objectively fucking crazy. What, oh brave maverick, do you propose we do?

[Bryan_Ekers]

At this late stage, I doubt reason will sway anyone. Mockery might, though.

[octopus]

@Bryan_Ekers

At this late stage, I doubt reason will sway anyone. Mockery might, though.

Exactly. Because people always respond favorably to ridicule.

[Czarcasm]

@octopus

Exactly. Because people always respond favorably to ridicule.

One more time: SO WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WILL WORK AT THIS LATE STAGE IN THE GAME?

[Velocity]

@iiandyiiii

All groups are equivalent! Pro-segregationist Dixiecrats were the same as anti-segregation Democrats and Republicans! Pro-slavery Democrats were equivalent to Lincoln’s Republican party! Every group has a legitimate and rational point of view that can’t be questioned!

First of all, Straw man - Wikipedia
Secondly, I’m simply pointing out that very few people can be mocked out of their beliefs. It’s human nature. Very few liberals, conservatives, libertarians, communists, fascists, racists, anyone, etc. respond to shunning or ridicule with a response of, “I must repent at once and convert to the views of those who mock me; these verbal attacks have shown me the error of my ways.”
Fat-shaming doesn’t make obese people lose weight. I doubt politics-shaming makes people change their views.

[DinoR]

@Maastricht

Vox had an interesting think piece on exactly this question. Research shows that Trump resonates with voters for one reason, and one reason only: racism.

That’s what your link said about the primary voters.

In the primary, though, the story was, as my colleague Zack Beauchamp has explained at length, almost entirely about racial resentment. There’s a wide array of data to back this up.

For the general election your own cite doesn’t support your claim.

So what is driving Trump supporters? In the general election, the story is pretty simple: What’s driving support for Trump is that he is the Republican nominee, a little fewer than half of voters always vote for Republicans, and Trump is getting most of those voters.

They do cite research that shows the effect of racism on the general election. It’s less correlated than party identification though. If you dig down I see statistically significant correlations with other factors that aren’t necessarily race based like opposing free trade.

[Velocity]

@Czarcasm

One more time: SO WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WILL WORK AT THIS LATE STAGE IN THE GAME?

It’s very possible that no human argument will convert Trumpers. But if honey doesn’t catch flies, then vinegar can only be even less effective yet.

[k9bfriender]

@octopus

Exactly. Because people always respond favorably to ridicule.

I see what you did there…

The mockery is not for the benefit of the Trump supporter. If there was any sort of logical, reasonable, or emotional argument that would have won them over, they would have been won over by now. If you can think of any other strategy, I’m all ears.

The mockery is for the benefit of those who are undecided. Those who are not committed to what trump stands for.

Mocking those who are committed to the ideals that Trump stands for gives the reasonable conservative a reason to distance themselves from the bigots.

The reasonable conservative does not want to think of themselves, or have others think of them, as being in the same category as the “deplorables” who are committed to seeing trump’s ideals realized. This is why the left needs to continue to treat the bigots who support trump with contempt at best.

[Czarcasm]

@Velocity

It’s very possible that no human argument will convert Trumpers. But if honey doesn’t catch flies, then vinegar can only be even less effective yet.

Then using your argument and extending it, if they cannot be converted, if these flies cannot indeed be caught, then they must be shown publically to be the fools that they are, to discourage others from following them-show the undecideds exactly what Trump is about.

[k9bfriender]

@Velocity

It’s very possible that no human argument will convert Trumpers. But if honey doesn’t catch flies, then vinegar can only be even less effective yet.

We’ve tried honey, we’ve tried vinegar, but those flies just keep hanging out by that piece of shit.

[Shodan]

There’s nothing wrong with the current political climate in America that can’t be fixed with more name-calling.

Regards,
Shodan

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Czarcasm

Then using your argument and extending it, if they cannot be converted, if these flies cannot indeed be caught, then they must be shown publically to be the fools that they are, to discourage others from following them-show the undecideds exactly what Trump is about.

That’s what I was going for, though I admit being inartful. If the goal is to prevent the election of Donald Trump, forget all the Trump supporters; you will never convert them anyway. Your better bet is to get the as-yet undecided voters to think it ridiculous to vote for him and a good belly laugh will serve better than any number of syllogisms.

[iiandyiiii]

@octopus

Do you feign ignorance or do you miss the context of what you are responding to? Reread the post I was actually responding to instead of always trying to weave in how utterly terrible white supremacy is.

Racism was explicitly part of the post you responded to, and I responded to your response, because I’ve heard that argument before (that government is the most dangerous of all) and wanted to point out how it sidesteps the experience of so many Americans who were protected by federal government. I think white supremacism is a large part of this discussion and Trump’s success.