I'm starting to hate my car now....

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

My car’s starting to piss me off…

I have an '02 Neon with 96,000 original miles that has been very reliable, up to this point

over the past couple months, there has been a phantom creaking noise from the front end that’s been eluding my mechanic, it manifests itself generally with suspension movement

I also noticed some kind of fluid leak on Friday evening, so it looks like i may have cooling system issues too

So, I dropped the car off at the mechanic today and got a ride into work, this afternoon, I got the call I’ve been dreading…

they’ve found the problem, the front suspension cross-member is rotting out, the car needs a brake job, and the leak is from the air conditioning system, all told, we’re looking at roughly a $1000+ repair job

GRAAAHHH!!!, ME HATE CAR NOW!!!

okay, time to think logically, up until now, the car has been absolutely rock-solid reliable, starts on the first turn of the key, every time, gets 35-38 MPG average, it’s been a decent little car, and I DO live in coastal Maine, highly corrosive salt air is normal here, but I’d be lying if i said I wasn’t considering a “new” car to replace it

I’ll probably swear off Dalmher/Chrysler now, as this is the first car I’ve had that has rusted out on me, heck, even my hated '88 ford escort never rusted out on me, everything else broke on me, but the body remained structurally sound

the Toyota dealer up the road from work has a couple of 5-speed manual Scion xB’s (a black '05 with 45K for $13K, and a silver '06 with 10K for $15K), but I don’t have a down-payment saved up, so i’d have to use the Neon as trade, and the Neon isn’t known for holding it’s value, i’d be lying if I said I wasn’t tempted by those little “TARDIS’es”

so, I see four options here;
1; spend the $1k and get the Neon fixed, as it’s been reliable up to this point
2; trade the Neon towards a Scion xB (probably the '05 to keep payments down) and suck up the fact that I’ll be back under car payments again
3; trade the Neon towards a VW TDI Diesel
4; find a good, used older car (preferably with a manual transmission, I HATE automatics) like an old Subaru or Honda or something, something Japanese

Decisions, decisions…

2

Just go with option 1. You’ll be better off without having to make payments.

3

xB! xB!

Yeah, so guess what my major purchase was about 1 month ago! The xB is a great little car. I ended up leasing a brand new one for $275 per month with $1000 down. Granted, the gas mileage isn’t quite what you were used to, but it’s an amazing car with an amazing number of standard features. Mine is a 2008 5-speed, dark blue, it averages 26 miles per gallon. And I love the iPod connector!!! :smiley:

4

You wouldn’t get very much for the Neon on trade if it didn’t have the problems you describe. Trading it with the problems not fixed you could expect to get $200-$800 for it (depending on the dealer).

I’m looking at the Black Book right now.

Rough Book for the 4d Sedan base model is $2500. Deduct $350 w/o automatic transmission. Deduct another $400 for miles. Deduct the cost of the repairs $1000. Deduct the dealer reconditioning costs (cleaning, oil change, etc) $500. Leaves you with $250 trade appraisal.

I’d spend the $1000 on the repairs if you are sure that is all it’s going to cost you. The problems you describe sound like more than that amount to fix to me.

5

Well, got the final parts list/price;

parts needing replacement;
Sub Frame assembly (the words “Swiss Cheese” comes to mind)
2 outer tie rods
2 lower ball joints
front brakes
oil leak (transmission)

$1785.00

and the car will be out of service for at least a week

:mad:

the subframe probably got rotted out by my 2 years in Vermont dealing with road salt

I’m beyond pissed off

at what point am I throwing good money after bad here?

I’m taking the car to another mechanic for a second opinion

6

xB! xB! :smiley:

7

Actually, the second place I’m taking it to is a reputable used car dealer, so if the car is in fact dead, I have other options

2000 BMW 323i wagon 91K miles, $10,995
2000 Honda Prelude Coupe, 66,378 miles, $8,995
2003 Saturn Ion Level 1, 68,522 miles, $6,495
2000 Subaru Legacy Brighton AWD wagon, 85,821 miles, $6,888
2005 Toyota Corrola, 51,181 miles, $10,495

all less than $11,000 all manual transmissions

I’ve outgrown my “NEED SPEED!!!” phase, i’m now in my “need good fuel mileage and reliability” phase, I still hate automatics though

8

Well, you can’t hold the cost of a brake job against the car. Brakes need to be worked on now and then, and it looks like “now” is your time.

Tie rod ends and ball joints at 96,000 miles? Eh… I’ve had cars need new tie rod ends at 60,000 miles. If you’re lucky, the worn suspension parts have been detected before your tires have been worn down until the steel belts are exposed. (Been there, done that. paid the nice man $580 for the privilege of two new tie rod ends, two new tires and an alignment)

As for the tranny leak - what are they doing repair-wise? You’re probably due for a filter and fluid change anyway, which generally involves dropping the pan, so the “usual suspect” gasket will be replaced as part of the job, assuming they do a filter/fluid change to repair the leak.

Aside from the subframe replacement, it’s sounding like a pile of fairly expensive maintenance, as opposed to repairs.

9

Before you spend that kind of money-make sure the rest of the body is sound (like the rear shock attachment points), and the floor pan. If you have serious rust there, the car will become unsafe to drive, and impossible to fix. If you want a used car-go for a Saturn with a manual tranny-they sell for low $$, and are durable little cars.

10

I second the Saturn, especially if you can get it at that price. NADA Retail on it is $7475. $1000 below retail is a pretty good deal. The miles on it are what is to be expected for it’s age. The insurance rates on it will be lower than any of the other cars on your list. (I’m a dealer, you can PM me if you have any questions. I’ll be happy to help…not try to sell you one, of course, just answer questions.)

11

I retract my previous post.

12

I’m still contemplating my options, I tend to drive the wheels off my cars, so the repair, though expensive, is still a possibility, the car is basically worthless now as a trade anyway, the motor is still strong, and as stated by gotpasswords, the brakes and transmission work are maintenance items, it’s just the luck of the draw that they all chose to fail at the same time

$1700+ though expensive, is still cheaper than a car payment

I’ll have Village Motors look at the car for a second opinion, if they think it’s not worth repairing, then I have the following options

I stopped at the Toyota dealer on the way home from work and test drove an 05 Scion xB, great little car, about 47K on the odo, the asking price was $13K, they have an end-of-month discount of $1000, and a $1000 trade-in allowance on my car, so the final cost is $11K, below cost, they tried the “hard sell” on me, so I walked out on them, telling them I’ll call them tomorrow (I might, I might not…)

I do like the xB, I just don’t like the payments, as it’s the most expensive car of the ones I’ve looked at

the other options at Village Motors are;
2000 Honda Prelude
'03 Saturn Ion
2000 Subaru Legacy
'05 Toyota Corolla
the Bimmer is out as it’s a fuel hungry V6 and high miles, and expensive repair parts

I’ll drop the car off on Wed. for the second opinion, they’ll even give me a free loaner for the day, something my other mechanic never offered

13

I missed the edit window, some further info about the Neon repair…

the mechanic working on my car has a PT Cruiser with the same rotted subframe issue, it seems to be a known issue with the Neon/PT models, I checked with my dealership about warranty repair, as expected, my rust-through warranty “expired in April” so I’m screwed there

I may just call Chrysler and give them a good solid screaming-at, see if I can get them to cover it under a warranty exception, the worst they can say is no

another wonderful flaw is that the leak is actually just condensation from the air conditioner compressor, but the hose the condensation drips down is designed so the water DRIPS DIRECTLY ON THE SUBFRAME!!!, it’s almost like they deliberately built-in a failure point

I’ve now sworn off Chrysler products, they finally did something that pissed me off and drove me into the waiting arms of the Japanese car companies, or even GM

FRAK YOU, CHRYSLER, I HOPE YOU GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!

I never thought I’d see the day that I’d hate Chrysler more than Ford, maybe i should give Ford another cha…NAAAHHH! Ford is out, Chrysler is out, the only American make left is GM

Frell, I’m even considering a sodding Hyundai, need something cheap, with good fuel mileage and reliability…and a manual transmission

14

Driver of a Hyundai here (and love, love, love it), so my vote would be for a Hyundai. Or, Hallgirl bought a Scion last year and loves, loves, loves it, so I’d also vote for that.

I don’t vote for sinking almost $2K into a car with almost 100,000 miles on it. Been there, done that, and it’s never turned out well.

15

Chrysler’s awesome, you should go for a ride in my Charger. :smiley:

16

I called Chrysler, as expected, they stuck to the party line “rust warranty is expired”, so I’m SOL

I’ve now written off Chrysler products, they stand to lose a dedicated customer over this, I’ve owned a '92 Shadow, '98 Neon, and an '02 Neon, all meticulously maintained, I WAS planning to buy my next car from the dealer I bought all three previous cars from, but since they’re not willing to help me, screw them

I asked my mechanic point blank why they didn’t catch the subframe issue when the car was up on the lift a month ago for the SAME bloody problem, they claimed that it didn’t look bad then, BS, a subframe doesn’t rot out in a month unless it’s made out of really bad quality steel

so, I’m getting a second opinion on Thursday (also my birthday, joy, what a gift i’m giving myself, car payments or an expensive repair… Bah Humbug!)

so far, I like the Scion xB, I REALLY like it, however I DON’T like the payments, if the Saturn, Subaru or Toyota at Village Motors seems decent enough, they have the price advantage over the xB, but I like the xB more

that could change though, i might find the Saturn completely acceptable, the payments would be a damn sight better…

17

wait a few years until the vehicle’s rotting out from under you, you’ll change your tune, I used to be a big Mopar fan until they screwed me :frowning:

18

I live in New Mexico. There are trucks driving around whose under bodies are in excellent condition from the '60s and up all over the place. I’m not sure rust even exists here.

How long to chassis usually last in Vermont?

19

Ok, yes, so of course you already know that the xB would be my first choice. After that I’d definitely recommend the Saturn. I worked at a Saturn store for 14 years and can testify to their willingness to help customers. For instance, I believe that if you would have had the rust problem on a Saturn that they might have offered to assist you somewhat in the repair. Maybe not 100 percent, but they were always generous to good customers. Personally, I would have loved to purchase a new Saturn myself, but there was no vehicle made by them that was practical for me and in my price range. And I really didn’t want to buy a used car.

20

Not too long, Vermont heavilly salts their roads in the winter, and it snows a lot, my mechanic says he’s seen newer cars than mine with rusted through components, Vermont eats cars

New England in general is tough on cars, the whole Northeast part of the American continent is, i’m sure some Canadian Dopers can back me up here

hmm, come to think of it, maybe that’s why used cars are so common in Vermont, why finance a nice new car for 4-5 years when it’s going to rot out from under you before it’s paid off…