Of course, I spoke English with native English speakers, as I assume Koreans do with Korean native speakers. The difference is that the Koreans here are supposed to be citizens, but they act like expats. When I go out to Korean restaurants(I have a serious kimchi addiction), all the items on the wall menu are in Korean only. I find I usually have to speak Korean because the waitresses usually speak little English. The Koreans have their own churches where Americans are emphatically NOT welcome. The Korean community shows no sign of wanting to blend with the rest of us.
Mind, I’m not being fair. Every immigrant community has had its transitional phase. Eventually, the next generation will blend in with the American mainstream. I guess what makes my blood boil is that the Koreans have such an easy time here compared to how they treat foreigners in Seoul.
Rather than allowing it to make you blood boil, shouldn’t you be glad you live over here rather than over there? I’m fascinated that your attitude is “I am angry they speak Koraen here because I was not welcome to speak English there,” rather than “I sure am glad I live here rather than in Korea where everyone’s a xenophobe.”
As I told one British friend who wanted to know if I’d ever want to live there, “I like to visit your country and all, but the reason we founded OUR country was to get the hell away from Britain.”
Allowing people to speak whatever language they want here is the central peice of evidence that Canada and the USA are better places to live than Korea.
Whenever some dipstick, filthy European country wins a soccer game, people in Toronto from said country (or whose paretns are from there) drive around with the dipstick country’s flag hanging out their window honking their horns. Over here, it ties up traffic for a few minutes. In Europe, it starts a riot that kills thirty people and leaves the city in ruins. Which would you rather have?
That cracked me up RickJay. I’m going to have to remember that for all my British friends.
Some of the things said on this thread have made me so angry I have had to write this reply 3 times so I wouldn’t get banned.
First, as far as I know, there is no law that says all Americans must speak english. If I don’t want to learn it, it is more detrimental to me than you. If you don’t feel comfortable in my store/restaurant/neighborhood don’t come.
Second, goboy listed many examples of how he was made to feel unwanted/uncomfortable/harassed while in Korea. Welcome to the real world. I was also born in Ohio & raised in Michigan. I have been “detained” by police, denied admittance into bars/clubs, & physically attacked because of the way I look (BTW, I’m Puertorican). These examples of assimilation (notice the ass built right into the word?) have nothing to do with immigration.
My personal stance is this. This country was “discovered” by a geographical idiot (please note the sig), stolen from the rightful owners & populated by people other countries couldn’t get rid of fast enough… Why should we be so choosy now?
And who would those people be? The Ainu, caucasians, Inuit?
If you mean the “rightful owners” I meant the natives that already lived here.
If you were asking about the “We” in my sig. that would be the Arawak tribes living in the Caribean.
No, what I meant was that the “natives” were not natives and came from another continent and were not of one single race. There is some genetic evidence that the earliest “settlers” here are distantly related to the Ainu, the nativs of Japan.
The issues (Immigration and the colonization of the Americas) are a little stickier than “us” and “them.”
Wasn’t Culumbus just another (early) immigrant?
Mr.Zambezi - this was my point. This is an entire country founded & populated by immigrants. Who are we to say who goes & who stays?
Well, then it wasn’t stolen because there were no rightful owners.
But I agree that the country and continent were in large part built by immigrants.
What we need are more countries that drive out their well educated merchant classes for ridiculous reasons.
Little*Bit, if you were born in Ohio doesn’t that make you an American rather than a Puertorican?
I have experience of this problem from a slightly different angle. Over the last six months or so, I had been considering taking up permanent employment here in the US. I’m fairly highly educated (on paper at least) and there were a couple of companies which were interested in employing me, although I did encounter a couple of problems. One was the all pervasive visa problem. The second was a personal problem. I was unsure how I would be expected to act. I’ll try to explain.
If I had decided not to return to the UK and had accepted an H-1 visa (temporary (5 years) but renewable leave to stay) and/or citizenship, would I have been expected to become an American? In the 18 months I have been here, I have simply been an expat Englishman in the US. I can’t imagine how I could have begun to behave differently, even if I were to have stayed for ten years. I would imagine that this could be a rather irritating attitude, for anyone not to embrace the culture of the country in which they have chosen to reside.
I never did, and still have not, resolved this predicament, and wonder if it ever can be resolved to the satisfaction of all concerned, particularly if English is not ones first language.
So I’m off back home;)
The difference is in the citizenship of the Koreans in America? So if you had obtained Korean citizenship and remained there you would have refused to ever speak English in the country again?
If they’re like most immigrants, they’d love to learn. But slaving away in the family restaurant doesn’t normally leave you with a lot of time to study. They probably also can’t afford private lessons, and in many parts of the country state-funded ESL programs have long waiting lists.
My best friend is Korean. I’ve been to her Korean church on several occasions, and was always treated very kindly. Maybe you just happen to know a few assholes. More likely, they sense your hostility and return it.
Puerto Rico is a territory of the US. All Puertoricans are Americans. Just because I’m from Ohio doesn’t make me any less Puertorican than being from Iowa would make someone who’s ancestors were from Italy less Italian.
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Jayron quote:
<b>“What kind of jingoist claptrap is this? They haven’t taken ANYTHING. They got they job because they could do it the best. If you’re so damned concerned about not getting a job because someone foreign-born may be better at it than you are, GET A FUCKING EDUCATION. If you are so concerned that you are underqualified for a job in comparison to a so-called “illegal immigrant” a) you must really be a functional retard and b) get better training. There is no conceivable mechanism by which foreign-born people “take” jobs away from people.”</b>
I was referring to illegal immigrants. If you would get your head out of your ass and quit trying to revert every thing I say into something racist, you’d realize the point I was trying to make. Not once did I say I was concerned about not getting a job because someone foreign born may be better at it than me. If they are more qualified at it than me, they should get the job. I said <b>illegal</b> imigrants shouldn’t get it, because natural born american citizens and <b>legal immigrants</b> deserve it. I not once said I was underqualified for a job in comparison to a so called “illegal immigrant”, yet I’m not saying that I’m more qualified than everyone else. I’m still in the 11th grade, so I’m not qualified for much yet.
Because of people like you, I can’t comment on my thoughts of immigration with out people like you turning it into something racist and making me look like a biggot. Well I’m not racist and I’m nowhere near a biggot. Everyone has the right to come into this country legally. And for those of you saying that I’m hiding behind this because that I think the law will keep everyone out… If I’m not wrong most of European people are allowed by their governments to immigrate here. As do most Asians,(excluding China, vietnam and other communistic counrties.) and Australia, and also China. Then you need to remember South America.(As for the communistic countries, as I said before, the entire world will never be a democracy, and I can’t help it. America can’t save everyones asses.) The majority of the people on earth are allowed by their governments to immigrate here. Why would I hide behind this?..waiting…I’M NOT!!! There’s nothing to hide behind. And some advice to Jayron, Take the time to read the entire entry, take the time to construct a well orchestrated response, and don’t be so quick to jump the gun.
So for those of you confuse of where I stand, People should be able to this country legally.
Sorry, didn’t mean China. I know their not allowed by their government to immigrate hear. And for those of you laughing because I’m still in the 11th grade… I haven’t failed a grade. I’m 16.
Bit of a truism but most illegal immigrants are doing work like cherry picking and cleaning toilets. There isn’t a great amount of competition from citizens and green card holders.
Nixon makes some valid points above about immigration’s effect on the local labor market (though the word “local” should be emphasized - whether or not immigration has a national job-displacing and/or wage-reducing effect pretty much depends on whether you’re asking a right-wing or left-wing economist). This is one of the reasons that organized labor for years took the “American workers first” position, but paradoxically also why they’re now beginning to soften their opposition and trying to work with the immigrants - the theory being that once all immigrants start demanding a certain minimum standard of wages and working conditions, the bosses will have no choice but to provide it.
They should be imprisoned. The laws are too lax.
If I had become a Korean citizen, I would have become more korean than the Koreans themselves. That’s what converts do.
If I were hostile, why would I want to embrace Korean culture? Koreans are extremely kind once they know you. My adult students were the sweetest people you could ever meet. On the other hand, if you have not been introduced to someone, you don’t exist. You were accepted at the church because you went with your Korean friend. If you had gone there alone, you would have received a different reception.
Again, Ruadh, I spent six years in Korea, speaking Korean, eating Korean food every day, and working for a Korean company. How much time have you spent there? Just because you have a Korean best friend does not invalidate my experience.
With that said, I reverse my position on immigration. C’mon in, tired and huddle masses, yearning to breathe free! With so many clearly intelligent and thoughtful people against me and Shagadelic agreeing, I’m obviously on the wrong side.
I will try and give what I hope is the opinion that the average American would hold. We wouldn’t expect you to (culturally anyway) simply transform yourself into an American. You would always be British, at least in part, culturally, and that is understood and expected. On the other hand, we don’t expect that you would hold your nose up at the silly doings of “these Americans” as a habit either. (I knew a Frenchman once whose entire personality seemed to revolve around how wonderful France was and how terrible it was for him to be here. It got to the point where I would just cry out in my best Maurice Chevalier accent “We surrender!” every time I saw him. It got him out of my face anyway.) Basically, so long as you were willing to live here and be a part of the group, few would expect you to simply morph into one of us.
The people who seem to irritate some are those folks who cluster in little enclaves and hold themselves aloof from mainstream society. People get their feathers ruffled by the tacit rejection of America that they perceive when an immigrant group is insular to the point of creating a separate society all their own, modeled after the home they forsook to come here. It’s a bit silly really, in that if I were to move to Japan, I would certainly feel more comfortable if there were an ‘Americatown’ I could live in day to day. While I wouldn’t advocate separating yourself completely from the mainstream, what’s wrong with having folks around you can relate to, and who help you keep alive some of the memories of home?
I think this is where the problem lies: the fact that you thing immigrants are, or should be, “converts”. They go to America for pragmatic reasons - the economic opportunities and political freedoms it offers - so that they can improve their lives and their children’s futures. You’re making it sound like some kind of ideological or even theological decision. That’s just ludicrous.
Speaking for myself, an American living in Ireland, I do try to immerse myself in the local culture as much as possible (easy to do when you look like the natives) but I’m damned if anyone’s going to tell me I have to give up any part of my history or personality in order to do so.