Immigration Protesters: Make your message pro-American!

[John_Mace]

“The Great American Boycott”. Man, you guys need a better PR agent. We want to be citizens, so let’s boycott America!!

OK, I can understand demostrations, protests, etc. But this? I see it only pissing people off. You didn’t ask my advice, but here it is. John’s simple guidlines for immigration protests:

1. Don’t wave Mexican flags or recruit Aztec dancers. This tell us you want to live in Mexico, not the US. Wave American flags, and if you have to have dancers, mix it up a bit with something that says “U.S.”.

2. Change the name to "Immigration Appreciation Day’ or something. The Great American Boycott sounds like extortion, not education.

3. Keep the kids in school. Have school kids protest after school. You’re only going to hurt the school district that is trying to help you, and again it sends a bad message.

4. WTF is the boycott of American goods all about? Again, that sounds like extortion. Have everyone BUY something instead of boycotting buying. Show American citizens that you want to help the economy. Besides, you don’t know the political affiliation of every business owner.

And why in the world did the CA State Senate Democrats endorse this thing? Do they want to give the Pubs a real reason to say that Dems hate America? I can see it now: Republicans love this country, Democrats boycott it. Pass a resolution that is favorable to the illegal immigrants (or undocumented workers, or whatever you want to call them), but don’t endorse a Boycott of our Country!! Is that so hard to understand?

I’m fairly sympathetic to the folks who are here illegally. I don’t endorse law breaking, but I can understand why they do it-- I probably would, too, if I were in their shoes. I don’t think they’re lazy or unproductive. On the contrary, I think most of them work their butts off. But why not send a positive rather than a negative message? Lo siento, mis amigos, pero no entiendo.

[Denis]

Good ideas, John.

Sounds like a great way to cut down on the shrillness of the debate.

[Neurotik]

Gotta agree. I’m supportive of their cause, but I am completely baffled by what they think they are going to accomplish here.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

I wonder just how many people involved in the walkout will get fired.

And then replaced, by newer illegal immigrants.

[tiny_ham]

It’s the Spanish version of the American anthem that puzzles me. It just defeats the whole purpose.

The protest leader here in Chicago made a plea on the radio yesterday for protesters to only carry AMERICAN FLAGS not Mexican or Puerto Rican or whathaveyou. And he was pretty upset about the Spanish anthem as well. Even he admitted that it was counterproductive.

If it comes to full fruition though, in Chicago, I can foresee a standstill downtown.

[John_Mace]

I think there is a very small minority that likes to be in-your-face about these things, and they have too strong a voice as to how these protests are set up. It’s sort of like the anti-war protests that get overwhelmed by the anti-globalization, anti-captialism folks. Too bad. This is not an easy problem to solve, and just saying: Make us citizens or else! doesn’t make it any easier. I mean, seriously, you don’t the right be a US citizen simply by sneaking acorss the border.

If I were running this protest, I’d have the marchers stop at every small business along the way, put up an American flag, and buy something from them. Make it like a giant 4th of July parade- be more American than Americans. This isn’t some Columbus Day celebration or St. Paddy’s day party where we revel in our ethnic heritage-- theres a time and a place for that sort of partying. This is supposed to be a movement to get people to change their minds politically. You want to rally people to your cause, not turn them off.

[Jackmannii]

[QUOTE=John Mace]
Make it like a giant 4th of July parade- be more American than Americans.
[/QUOTE]
This is pretty much the same advice I’d give antiwar, anti-Bush Administration protestors, only I’d phrase it something like “Be more patriotic than the hyperpatriots”.

Show the flag en masse, honor the foot soldiers, sing the anthem. Don’t relinquish patriotic displays to foes who can then exploit your purported lack of national feeling.

[Merijeek]

Why is the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish such a big deal? We have a hell of a lot of signs in this country in two languages - why not the Anthem?

-Joe

[tiny_ham]

If it were a straight translation I wouldn’t have a problem, but in order for it to sound right, they changed the lyrics. It’s a song written in English and should stay in English.

And if I moved to France I wouldn’t demand that they sing the anthem or whathave you in English.

[Merijeek]

[QUOTE=tiny ham]
If it were a straight translation I wouldn’t have a problem, but in order for it to sound right, they changed the lyrics. It’s a song written in English and should stay in English.

[/QUOTE]

Ah, so they had to change the lyrics to fit Spanish idioms, or they had to change it to to get the Spanish lyrics to fit the music?

-Joe

[bup]

John, what’s gotten into you? You’re raging with two pit threads at once!

I don’t get the big deal about the national anthem in Spanish, either, but I don’t know much about it except someone recorded one. I don’t care if the anthem’s in German or Japanese, if it’s not mocking Key’s work. Renaming it “Our Anthem,” though, seems to fit right into what John’s pitting. “We’re Americans too - we have our own special anthem for US not YOU!” :smack:

[silenus]

[QUOTE=John Mace]
4. WTF is the boycott of American goods all about? Again, that sounds like extortion. Have everyone BUY something instead of boycotting buying. Show American citizens that you want to help the economy. Besides, you don’t know the political affiliation of every business owner.
[/QUOTE]

4a. If you really want to get your point across, pick a product, any product. Then have every one of your people buy it on the same day. The spike will be visible, easily quantified and understood in dollars and cents, and show just how big of a force in the economy you really are. Pick something cheap and plentiful, like a McDonalds Cheeseburger.

[Neurotik]

[QUOTE=John Mace]
I think there is a very small minority that likes to be in-your-face about these things, and they have too strong a voice as to how these protests are set up.
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, this is basically it. I’ve been on the coordination/planning teams at a fairly high level at two large immigration rallies (pro side) and it’s like herding cats. The similarity is to those parliaments that have to form a coalition of several parties to get a government together. They are constantly held hostage to the more extreme wings. The more moderate groups do their best to tone things down, but there are lots of competing egos and organization competition. And if you tell a group “no,” then they leave and you have no ability to moderate them.

It’s a pain in the butt.

[Yeticus_Rex]

[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Why is the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish such a big deal? We have a hell of a lot of signs in this country in two languages - why not the Anthem?

-Joe
[/QUOTE]

Maybe because it was never sung (in the country’s historic past) in Gaelic, Italian, French, German, Russian, Chinese, etc., etc., etc.

So, why should the Spanish version be the exception to the unspoken rule? Since the illegal immigrants want to compare themselves to the immigrants of past migrations, then wouldn’t it be in THEIR best interest to sing the Anthem in english just like the rest of the immigrants of the generations past?

[jlzania]

[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
This is pretty much the same advice I’d give antiwar, anti-Bush Administration protestors, only I’d phrase it something like “Be more patriotic than the hyperpatriots”.

Show the flag en masse, honor the foot soldiers, sing the anthem. Don’t relinquish patriotic displays to foes who can then exploit your purported lack of national feeling.
[/QUOTE]

Actually we do.
At least the ones that I’ve participated in- both in Austin and in Crawford at Camp Casey.
We fly the American flag, we honor the fallen soldiers and their familes, we do everything we possibly can to get the point acrooss that we love this country, support our troops and that it is the current administrations policies that we are opposed to.
Didn’t stop a group of jerks from riding by at Easter and telling us that we should be executed for our dissent.
I especially liked the man that looked Juan Torres in the eye after being informed that Juan’s son died serving in Afganhistan and said '“Fuck you and fuck your son too.”
A true patriot and compassionate soul.

[GIGObuster]

[QUOTE=John Mace]
I think there is a very small minority that likes to be in-your-face about these things, and they have too strong a voice as to how these protests are set up.
[/quote]

looking at the latest Pew research polls, it seems to me that the ones that passed the draconian house bill are in the minority.

[QUOTE=John Mace]
It’s sort of like the anti-war protests that get overwhelmed by the anti-globalization, anti-captialism folks. Too bad. This is not an easy problem to solve, and just saying: Make us citizens or else! doesn’t make it any easier. I mean, seriously, you don’t the right be a US citizen simply by sneaking acorss the border.
[/QUOTE]

If you want to play the ignorant be my guest, but it remains insulting that you are ignoring that the reason not only illegals but legal immigrants will protest is because of the house bill:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200603290001

The Washington Times claimed that opponents of a recent House immigration bill (H.R. 4437) have “disingenuously charged” that, under the bill, “anyone who helps an illegal immigrant would be considered a felon.” But the bill explicitly includes under “criminal offenses” any person who knowingly “assists, encourages, directs, or induces” an illegal alien to “reside in or remain in the United States.” So while courts would ultimately have to determine the scope of the conduct proscribed under the bill, critics – which include prominent religious leaders – can hardly be accused of “disingenuous[ness]” for citing its plain language.

@John Mace

If I were running this protest, I’d have the marchers stop at every small business along the way, put up an American flag, and buy something from them. Make it like a giant 4th of July parade- be more American than Americans. This isn’t some Columbus Day celebration or St. Paddy’s day party where we revel in our ethnic heritage-- theres a time and a place for that sort of partying. This is supposed to be a movement to get people to change their minds politically. You want to rally people to your cause, not turn them off.

The reality is that the house bill (the stick) is the only one that remains approved in congress, and that is because the senate plan (the carrot) was put on hold.

What we have here is you demanding that people that will be declared felons of bigger charges to remain quiet, those people IMHO are demonstrating what will happen if we go along with the house plan.

[QUOTE=silenus]
4a. If you really want to get your point across, pick a product, any product. Then have every one of your people buy it on the same day. The spike will be visible, easily quantified and understood in dollars and cents, and show just how big of a force in the economy you really are. Pick something cheap and plentiful, like a McDonalds Cheeseburger.
[/QUOTE]

The thing is, companies like Western Union already know that, but the House would does not mind that many Americans would lost their jobs if the House plan goes further.

[Unregistered_Bull]

[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex]
Maybe because it was never sung (in the country’s historic past) in Gaelic, Italian, French, German, Russian, Chinese, etc., etc., etc.

So, why should the Spanish version be the exception to the unspoken rule? Since the illegal immigrants want to compare themselves to the immigrants of past migrations, then wouldn’t it be in THEIR best interest to sing the Anthem in english just like the rest of the immigrants of the generations past?
[/QUOTE]

Do you know for a fact that it was never sung in any of these languages? Spanish is a historically a US language in the Southwest and some of its territories like Puerto Rico. It’s really no big deal if someone honors the song and the country with a version in whatever the hell the language they want whether its Navajo, Spanish, German, or French. You have to be pretty Goddamned xenophobic to get your panties in a wad over this.

[JohnBckWLD]

5. Don’t even dare consider clogging the roadways and tying up traffic. You’ll just further piss off commuters and people who make their livings driving. Every minute someone idles in congestion will result in a sentiment like, ‘Here we are, unable to get to work while the people who benefit from the taxpayer’s largess impede our progress.’ Close American Cities? This had better be hyperbole.

6. Tell the Mexican Congressional delgation to keep their asses out of Los Angeles on MayDay. Foreign politicans showing solidarity with what many view as squatters and law breakers while on Americasn soil will go over like a fart in St. Mary’s Holy RC Church.

[Miller]

Here’s some other people showing their disinterest in being American citizens by flying a non-American flag during a parade.

[Garfield226]

Step [whatever]: Stop saying stupid racist shit.

@Art Torres

Remember: 187 is the last gasp of white America in California. Understand that. And people say to me on the Senate floor when I was in the Senate, ‘Why do you fight so hard for affirmative action programs?’ And I tell my white colleagues, ‘because you’re going to need them’

Exchange on a radio show by Mario Obledo, co-founder of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF) and the La Raza Lawyers of California bar association, and former California Secretary of Health and Welfare

Obledo: “We’re going to take over all the political institutions of California. In five years the Hispanics are going to be the majority population of this state.”

Caller: “You also made the statement that California is going to become a Hispanic state, and if anyone doesn’t like it, they should leave. Did you say that?”

Obledo: “I did. They ought to go back to Europe.”

A few more at snopes