If such examples of “hate speech” are reprehensible (and I agree that they are, at the very least, offensive) then why the hell does Michael Savage still have a job?
I don’t suppose it would be possible to point out the irony of Al Sharpton being sanctimonious about how speech can be used to hurt people of different races without being accused of defending Imus, would it?
Probably not.
What would have been funny would be if Imus invited Sharpton onto his show, and then ripped him a new one for hypocrisy. Go on the attack, be entertaining - do something other than apologize. That doesn’t work with people who want to be morally superior.
I’ve never heard Imus’ show, so I can’t tell if this would work for his demographic, but…
Regards,
Shodan
You know, Imus-gate wouldn’t come off as this protracted war over speech and hurt feelings if people would simply stop defending the indefensible. Kinda like the OP has.
Imus is not Hitler. His words did not kill anyone. Worst offenses are committed everday. I think we all can agree with this.
But he is supposed to be professional and he failed. He screwed up and people like Al Sharpton and others wanted to make sure he payed the consequences. Those consequences have been meted out. People get in trouble at work all the time. This is just one more time.
I don’t know why anyone cares enough about Imus to defend him so adamantly. He’s not some doe-eyed innocent here.
It’s all according to context, of course. It’s perfectly possible to discuss the “nappiness” of hair without meaning it as a slur, or having it taken that way. But as part of what is obviously an insult, the racial component of it – that nappiness is characteristic of black hair – cannot be separated from the spirit of the insult. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with being “rangy,” “freckled” or even “potato-munching,” but attached to any otherwise insulting commentary any of these would clearly turn the whole insult into an ethnic slur.
Actually you could, you know. See, I haven’t accused you you of defending Imus yet, but to be fair, let’s see how things go by the end of this post. Meanwhile, I’ll just point out that it didn’t take a single word from Al Sharpton for me to have concluded that Imus was being a colossal jerk. Are you proposing that everyone who might be offended by Imus’ blather, or even most of them, are only doing so because Rev. Al said they should?
Like I said before, it seems pretty clear at least as much of the noise surrounding this issue comes from the folks that love to bash Sharpton at every opportunity as it does from those who (rightly, I think) found Imus’ comments unacceptable.
Well, here’s the end of the post and I still haven’t accused you of defending Imus. Guess you’re wrong, but try not to dwell on it too much.
In the interests of something or other, the author Annie Lamott (who is white) refers to herself as “nappy headed”. She started wearing dreadlocks a few years back.
In no way does this mean I am defending the Idiot Imus. I am glad he is off the air; I just wish Rush et al would go with him.
I think the Rutgers team had to say something public–this story was a feeding frenzy for the media. Better to hold a press conference than to have the individual players tracked down and pressed for statements (which may happen anyway).
I highly doubt that any of these girls will be scarred for life. Sadly, it will reinforce the notion of not so hidden racism (which does exist).
I suppose my problem is that if I think that someone’s speech is racist then I would expect that person to be racist in his heart. I just don’t think the evidence is there to support the charge that Imus is racist.
I could be wrong, not living in America, but its been quite a few decades where the vast majority of African American women I see on TV have altered their hair. But it seems that the natural style is coming back and with an implied statement of personal pride. The word nappy is now a hairstyle choice for women. Does anyone refer to men’s hair as nappy?The word also sounds like “snappy”, and quite frankly sounds cool to me. I also find the style attractive. In my youth I once dated a Jamaican girl and I can still fondly remember running my fingers through her hair. So my thinking on the word is it just doesn’t sound disparaging. Of course now it is because everyone is making a big issue of it.
As for the word “ho”, I’m no sure anyone really knows exactly what it means. On more than one occassion I’ve heard girls refer to each other as hoes in a friendly manner. I guess it must be okay for girls to refer to other girls as hoes, but if a man does it then its sexist.
The interesting thing for me is that here we have middle aged white men that are motivated to watch an entire basketball game player almost entirely by black girls. I can see that one team made up of girls with obvious tattoos, (hint, many upper middle aged men are not comfortable with girls wearing obvious tattoos) and reactionary hairstyles suggests intimidation upon the more conventional team of girls. Its Sparta vs Athens, J******s vs Wannabees to borrow a phrase from Spike Lee.
Look, any way you cut it, Imus made a mistake. I don’t deny that. He appologized. But the degree of offence to blacks and women by his remarks has been highly magnified by the reaction to it and when I hear calls by Sharpton (white interloper) and Jesse Jackson (hymietown), both ministers who have been caught lying to the public about their racist remarks, for Imus’s ouster, the hypocricy of this entire controversy overwhelms me.
I don’t think you’ll stir up any controversy
I’d like to know if Al Sharpton is too over the top for you.
After all, the man has incited more than one race riot in which people died, and ruined the reputation of an innocent man in the Tawana Brawley case. That’s far worse than the behavior that you decry here, and isn’t the complete list of Sharpton’s offenses.
Where is the demand that his radio show be removed from the airwaves?
This is quite possibly the dumbest thing ever posted on these boards.
Why do I think your “research” consisted of going to some right wing websites for the daily talking points?
This whole thing has been a disaster for the right. Their first response was to call him a rascist, thinking the left would come to his defense because he was a Kerry supporter,and they could paint them as hypocrites. Well, the left came out pretty unaimously against Imus, and the Limbaughs and Hannitys found themselves on the same side as Sharpton and Jackson. Plus their listeners, instead of bashing Imus, came to his defense. “Hey we all say rascist stuff once in a while.” Give the guy a break, look at rap and Chris Rock!" So now we have shifted 180 degrees, and Imus is a martyr, and the fault really lies with black culture.
Now that he’s been fired, the pressure is going to fall on Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. to clean up they’re acts. The right now finds themselves defending rascism. This should be interesting. Expect a new attack on Nancy Pelosi very shortly. Gotta change the subject.
Obviously the OP shares the same personal flaw as Don Imus: he never saw Police Academy. I learned at an early age that if you’re white and say “jigaboo,” a big black florist will fuck yo shit up.
I don’t think this has been a disaster at all for the right. Most conservatives have been after Coulter to clean up her act for a long while now, and Hannity and Limbaugh run clean shows.
Disagree all you want with what Hannity or Limbaugh say, but they don’t peddle in racial humor the way Imus did.
“Halfrican-American” is clearly racial, and Limbaugh claims it is humorous. I really shouldn’t comment on Hannity, I’ve never heard his raio show. He does have a regular guest on his TV show (a black man) who only comes on to bash other blacks. He is never asked about other issues, but when it involves black people, this guy comes on to bash them. Hannity does a lot of race-baiting.
I suspect that you may be confusing charges of personally held racism with charges of racist acts. I know that there are opinions scattered all over the map regarding this event with any number of people claiming that Imus was or was not racist. However, regardless whether Imus is, in his heart of hearts (if he has one), a believer in white superiority or black inferiority, his actions were to employ racist insults.
One might use nappy without it being insulting–if one is discussing hair texture and not employing it in the phrase “nappy headed” in the context of denigrating a person’s appearance.
One might get away with using “ho” in a specific context–if one does not use it as an insult directed at a group of women one is disparaging.
One could easily use wannabe in any number of contexts, although to use it in a way that echoes a specific known (intra)racist taunt when one is not even a member of the group for whom the word has the meaning in which one employs it is, shall we say, ill considered.
There is no way that anyone can use jigaboo that is not insulting* and for a white person to direct it against black persons is only marginally less serious than using nigger in the same context.
To use this entire collection of insults in a directly insulting way puts a very strong stamp of “racist action” on one’s behavior, even if one donates 10% of one’s gross income to the NAACP or is dating a member of the denigrated group (see Ted Danson with Whoopi Goldberg).
Was the later firing justified? I dunno. That would seem to be more an effort by corporate to send a message to viewers and sponsors that they still want their business and to future employees that there are lines that should not be crossed. (I always thought that Jimmy the Greek took an unfair hit for just being ignorant–or dumb. Imus is neither ignorant nor dumb, so with a Jimmy the Greek example out in broadcast history, I suppose that Imus had to take some kind of a hard hit.) I do not think this incident should bring Imus’s career to an end–that should happen based on the fact that he lost his genuine edge 20 years ago–but if it catches his attention and the attention of some other shock jocks, it may serve a salutory purpose.
*There is clearly such a thing as a friendly insult–but it needs to be shared among friends.
What would Imus’s core demographic do if he knocked Al Sharpton off his perch
(which could be done with three words- “Pot, meet kettle”)?
They would storm the studio, hoist Imus on their shoulders and proclaim him to be God.
I would just call him a “demigod” and vote for him to be included among the Olympians, but not elevate him to the Throne of the Most High.
Re Mr Moto- as a wavering Rush fan, I do have to admit he skirts the race thing somewhat uncomfortably.
That’s true. I had forgotten that incident. I’m not a Limbaugh listener.
As for Hannity, without knowing of the particular guest in question or the substance of the criticism, I really cannot say.
I think many commentators skirt racial subjects, some better than others. But I’d wager good money that you’d never hear the kinds of things Imus made a stock in trade used at all on either Hannity’s show or Limbaugh’s.
I don’t give a fuck in Hell whether anyone is racist “in his heart.” We’ve got at least one elder statesman who might retain some of the teachings of the bad, old days. But he comports himself with dignity & truly tries to help *all * people.
Remember that has-been Seinfeld star who blew it during his stand-up bit? Many said he wasn’t really racist, but “stress” made him use those words. Tough shit.
I listen to what people say & watch what they do. They can share their “hearts” with their cardiologists.
My grandmother practically washed my mouth out with soap when I used the “N” word. So I don’t use it, even though it’s used within (some of) the African-American community. They can, I can’t. Unless I want people to think I’m an inbred, green-toothed, snakehandling redneck with a Stars & Bars tattoo in the worst possible place.
I personally don’t care what happens to Mr Face Made for Radio’s career. The bottom line is money. If the broadcasters & sponsors think he’s a losing cause, they’ll dump him. Then he’ll be free to devote more time to his famous charities.
(By the way–“Casius Clay” became Muhammad Ali quite a few years ago.)
Exactly. You call a group of young women “nappy-headed hos,” I’m going to think you’re a racist misogynist. You can apologize all you want, but for those words to cross your lips in the first place, something in you has to find that acceptable.
Is it possible to discuss whether the remarks Imus made are racist/sexist without discussing Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter, Sharpton, Spike Lee, or anyone else and just focus on what he said?
Simple question- Were these remarks racist/sexist/demeaning to these women?
“That’s some rough girls from Rutgers,” Imus said. “Man, they got tattoos … .”
“Some hardcore hos,” McGuirk said.
“That’s some nappy-headed hos there, I’m going to tell you that,” Imus said.
It’s a pretty simple question. Commentators are paid to discuss and dissect this crap for hours but in the real world it’s not difficult to see these remarks for what they were. If one of these girls was your daughters or sister, you’d be offended.
Well, if that isn’t the pot calling the kettle African-American.
Nope, doesn’t scan.
Regards,
Shodan