In defence of Russia

There would have been a lot of interest from Russians; unfortunately many have already bought the farm.

I remember that from my Technical Writing class. (Got an ‘A’ in it, BTW. :wink: )

I expect that another unintended consequence of this war is that countries around the world can now see that the Russian equipment is CRAP when it is used in an actual real world engagement. This has been the absolute worst advertisement for them in terms of military equipment sales around the world.

“Please buy our pop-top tanks that explode very nicely!”

Your free speech is not being taken away when we call you out on your asinine posts, lack of facts and stupid comments. What you desire is consequence-free speech.

Russian equipment isn’t so bad as all that. The vast majority of Ukrainian equipment is also Russian/Soviet in origin. The autoloader ammo storage without blowout protection in the T-72 isn’t great, but the bigger problem with Russian tanks is that the Russians haven’t been supporting them properly. Over and over again we’ve seen Russian tanks advancing without screening forces to protect them from ATGM teams etc, or without advance combat engineers to do de-mining. Abrams or Leopard are going up in smoke in that situation too, albeit without the dramatic turret tosses.

On the other hand, the war has been pretty good advertisement for Russian air defense equipment.

BMPs seem pretty meh, I’ll grant. And the Russian artillery philosphy of mass fire over pinpoint accuracy has been shown to work but with the requirement for ludicrous amounts of munitions, which might make prospective customers think that more expensive but accurate western systems are preferable from a total cost of operation perspective.

Right. The bigger issue isn’t that Russian gear is mediocre in of itself (though tank design/production has lagged relative to the West since the U.S.S.R. went down). It’s that it is being used poorly. Why? In part because the conscription system for its soldiers that is in place is worse than what the Soviets had and THAT system was itself predicated on a vastly larger military. Meanwhile Russian military doctrine hasn’t evolved enough to deal with the differences. It clearly just doesn’t work for the lean, modern army Russia wanted/were forced into.

I’d expect the Russian army to eventually get a little better through sheer combat experience. But so far its performance has been, with a few minor exceptions, woeful. That mostly isn’t down to equipment, but rather lack of training and weak doctrine. Also, it almost goes without saying, shit leadership.

A few years ago, I read that Russian (probably Soviet) jets that were exported, had engines that needed to be replaced every… 2,500 hours? 5,000 hours? IIRC, the idea was A) Any nation that tried to use the jets against Russia/USSR would not be able to use them very long; and B) They’d have to buy new engines from Russia. Profit!

Sorry I don’t have a cite.

Your analytical abilities have surely improved since you concluded that Russia abandoned Kherson due to secret negotiations with Ukraine Komrad! All is going according to plan and timetable, Kiev was just a feint with the intention of dragging the war special military operation into a losing attritional war lasting at least a year instead of the publicly stated 72 hours! The plan is brilliant in its insanity with its years long preparatory lead time to produce a humiliating result, again all part of some yet to be revealed deeper plan!

If you haven’t noticed over the last year, the West overestimated Russian military capabilities and stockpiles in the years before the war, seriously considering Russia to be a near-peer, and not realizing just how poorly maintained its frontline equipment was, much less how much of it in deep storage had been so poorly maintained as to be useful for spare parts at best. IISS Military Balance 2022 attributed 10,000 tanks in deep storage, all T-72 or more recent models. Turns out 10,000 was an overcount of total numbers (Covert Cabal made a video where he bought satellite images and hand counted Russian storage parks) , much less still usable vehicles, and there were still significant numbers of T-62s and even some T-55s lying around that they’ve pulled (T-62) or are now pulling (T-54) out of storage. Covert Cabal did another video counting and estimating the total number of T-54s still out there.

Why all that high-tech hardware seen in propaganda footage intended for the export market and to modernize its post-Soviet military that has noticeably only been produced in tiny quantities and absent in Ukraine either in totality (T-14 Armata, Su-57 Felon) or has only made the smallest of stage appearances (BMPT Terminator). :roll_eyes:

Indeed, though Leopards aren’t immune from flying turrets as the Turks discovered in 2016 and 2017:

The BMP just hasn’t aged well; when it was introduced in 1966 it was a revolutionary vehicle. It gets compared to vehicles like the M2 Bradley which isn’t entirely fair - but then neither is war - since its contemporary was the M113. That the original design BMP-1 is still in use by both sides and was lying around in storage in Eastern European NATO nations stores to be sent to Ukraine is a testament to the enormous numbers it was produced in.

The Global South is now answering back.

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/international/global/malaysia-china-discuss-asian-fund-cut-dollar-dependency

And more from the U.S. allies are joining them.

None of that matters if Russia’s battlefield performance continues to be pathetic. And there’s no sign of that changing.

More with the “global south” idiocy". Is this a thing that is being pushed in the right-wing muppet media for credulous idiots to spread around?

It seems to me like it is propaganda coming direct from the Kremlin.

Pro-tip for our resident idiot: This “global south” nonsense was roundly debunked in the thread that you are now banned from posting in. Most of us have already read those posts that clearly state what a tool you are. You’re not fooling anyone.

With the possible exception of ralfy.

Nyet! That is the Collective West Komrad! Be glad you don’t live in glorious Russia under even more glorious Putin or we jail you and take your children from you for slandering the propaganda line.

On a serious note, I guess I’m lucky in that I’d never noticed Vault Boy and his content free posting until the other day. I haven’t heard anyone actually use the term Global South in decades, and @ralfy isn’t even using the term correctly. It’s supposed to be a more polite term for the Third World. China and Malaysia aren’t part of the Global South.

Oh, and the CNBC article title is extremely click-baity. What exactly is Russia’s ‘growing support’ in the developing world?

Assessing countries’ enforcement of sanctions, U.N. voting patterns, domestic political trends and official statements alongside economic, political, military and historical ties, the EIU observed a significant uptick in the number of countries now leaning toward Russia — from 29 last year to 35 today.

By contrast, the number of countries actively condemning Russia fell from 131 to 122.

I’m sure the defection of Mali and Burkina Faso signals a change in Russia’s diplomatic and military fortunes. Russia is shit out of luck with Burkina Faso, but it looks like Mali might have a couple of non-operational T-54s and MiG-21bis’ lying about that they could buy back from them if things keep going the way they are for Russia.

Thanks for the link! I had never personally run across the term until seeing our reality-challenged associate bring it up in those garbage posts. I couldn’t figure out how China could be considered south of any of the other major countries mentioned.

TIL something new.

There’s absolutely no hint of racism or classism in the term, is there? /s

Whatever the term used for the growing number of countries negotiating economic and political ties to avoid being tied too tightly to the U.S. dollar or any other currency that can be weaponized against them. It is a very big deal. A reserve currency has a lot of clout and great benefits to the issuer of it. The less the U.S. dollar is used in international trade and reserves, the less the U.S. can have others pay it’s way.

These countries are also bypassing things like SWIFT to conduct transfers. Again protecting themselves.

Saudi Arabia and others are now selling oil in currencies other than the U.S. dollar.

It is a bit of a complex system right now. A lot of separate deals and such to integrate. It may fail. Or some members may find ways to screw each other over.

But things are changing on a global scale. Good or bad? Time will tell.

Nit picking about terminology is lame.

Yes, things are definitely changing on a global scale.

Not to continue the highjack, but I can’t see this being pushed by right wing media. It seems distinctly anti-American which would be an anathema to them. It really seems like more of a far left tankie thing.

Seems more like a pro-Russian thing to me.

Yes, pro Russian propaganda directed at the left side of the spectrum. Right side Russian propaganda is more directed at the notion that Ukraine is a waste of money, Ukraine has bio weapons and Putin as a hero of traditional family values.

Yes. Russian propaganda does try to target both extremes, and tries (successfully in many cases!) to put them against each other.

See, for example, election interference, where the Russian bot farms would work with both far left and far right groups, trying to incite them.

The only question here is: Are our friends in this thread posting the Russian propaganda doing it under orders, or are they merely useful idiots?