Ukraine is Finally Free!

Congratulations to the Ukrainian people for achieving freedom and democracy!

I sure hope so. Ideally the US should implement a sort of a Marshall Plan for Ukraine which would not force sudden and harsh austerity like an IMF bailout would.

Quick entrance into the European Union is the first step. This should be done within the next seven days, and no longer.

I’m not sure “President deposed by street protests a week ago” is in the Copenhagen criteria.

They’ve achieved neither yet. They’ve made a good start, but a lot can happen in the coming chaos.

^This. We have yet to see if things get better for the people or if they have only moved to the fire from the frying pan.

I applaud your enthusiasm but think this will be a years-long shift.

Yes, because what the EU needs and wants most of all is a politically and economically unstable nation in Russia’s back yard.

All speculation and rhetoric should be put on hold until Russia has stated its final word on the matter.

Still a work in progress.

When the late unlamented USSR self-destructed in 1991, the meme was: “The existing world order [meaning, the “Cold War” scheme of things] has fallen! A new world order has begun!”

Uh, not quite.

My take on it, at the time, was more like: Yes, the existing world order (as we boomers had known it for our whole lives) had indeed fallen. But I guessed that it would be at least a good 20 years before a “new world order” would become well-established to take its place.

Fast-forward to 2014: Still a work in progress.

At least until the Russian tanks roll in.

Do you think Russia will try to use their military to turn East Ukraine into a separate country, like they did with Georgia?

Considering the fact that Russia’s Black Sea Fleet is based in the Crimea and their Foreign Minister basically threatened as much, I see a high likelihood that Russian tanks are soon to be seen in at least East Ukraine. This wild ride has just begun IMHO.

Capt

Of course, Putin is known for making many empty threats: he does know that he could never win a conventional war with the Free World.

The question is, would NATO be willing to counter Russia in a conventional war were Russia to move in?

Yes, I can easily foresee tanks starting to roll.

Why would the EU accept Ukraine? They don’t live up to their agreements and they keep electing kleptocratic thugs and there’s more than a smattering of nationalist hate going around.

I don’t have much faith that Ukraine’s “democratic revolution” isn’t being hijacked by conservative extremists not entirely unlike Syria’s “democratic revolution” isn’t being hijacked by conservative Islamists.

Hoo Boy lets do the WWIII shuffle. While I would love to have Ukraine as part of the EU and fully support the Ukrainian desire to do so, Russia and NATO going tete a tete is a very bad idea. I hate to say it but divide the Country if that is the only choice other than war.

Capt

No. International politics won’t allow Russia to split off a large part of Ukraine.

You must mean Southern Ossetia… its a small place, a mere border dispute…
South Ossettia was already autonomous - a patch left unclear since the collapse of the USSR …The Russians were allowed to preserve the autonomy of South Ossettia

If the eastern half of Ukraine wants to join Russia, let it happen as peacefully as possible. If not, then of course NATO and the world should unite against Russia and fight them off.

I will repost this again here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

US, UK and Russia guarantee Ukraine’s territorial integrity.

If it’s only going to be a conventional war, then what is the problem? Neither side would use weapons of mass destruction over Ukraine. Russia would lose the conventional war, accept the losses, and head back to Russian borders, and the Ukraine could become a united free country that embraces Western Democratic Liberalism and joins the EU.

I agree that if there was a chance of a nuke exchange, then war should be avoided completely. But neither side would use nukes unless it was their own borders that was being invaded.