In the name of the lord!!!

The BBQ Pit
41

While people on this board are obviously free to use words however they wish, I’d have to say my understanding of the word is similar. To me, a “fundie” is any person of a fundamentalist branch of the Christian religion (essentially “born-again” Protestants). A “jeezoid” is any person who believes that Jesus was the son of god. Their specific behavior is only relevant so far as it informs me of their beliefs (since obviously I can’t look at someone and determine their beliefs, unless they’re wearing religious garb or something along those lines). I can’t say I’m a frequent user of those terms (I’ve never used either one on this board, as far as I can remember), but on the occasions I have used them, that was how I did so.

I’ve know people who have excused their use of the word “nigger” by explaining that they have no problem with black people in general, they only use the term to describe black people they don’t think are a benefit to society. As such, they wouldn’t think “nigger” when they saw a black man dressed in a suit, but would when they saw one dressed like a gangster rapper. Of course, some would argue that that attitude isn’t racist, but if someone does want to debate that, it’s probably best left for a different thread.

Fundie and jeeziod are both pejorative terms for groups of people, and I think ultimately it comes down to is whether those types of pejorative terms, in and of themselves, are a bad thing? Even when they are applied to groups that the applier has sufficient reason to dislike, based upon the group’s actions.

While I’m far from perfect in this regard, it is my opinion that applying pejorative group terms to specific individuals because those individuals are disliked is offensive to some degree, regardless of what group the term refers to.

42

In some ways, both DITWD and Satan are correct. But in another way, DITWD is correct and Satan is not.

Satan is operating from a self-centered viewpoint that he can use a perjorative term to describe one person in a group and that no one else in that group should take offense because he didn’t intend to have it apply to them.

DITWD is operating from a viewpoint that hearing someone use a perjorative term that describes a group that you are a member of is hurtful, regardless of whether the speaker intended the comment to apply to only to someone else.

The analogy to the use of the word “nigger” is valid. Assume Tiger Woods and I are walking past a black kid acting obnoxiously, and I tell Tiger “look at that nigger.” I certainly don’t intend to equate my well-educated and successful (perhaps even “Wall Street”) friend Tiger with the kid. From my perspective, I am not a bigot. But from Tiger’s perspective, he and the kid both share the trait that I am referring to perjoratively-- black skin. From his perspective, I am a bigot.

The reason that DITWD is more correct than Satan is because we form our perceptions of others based on what they say, not what they think. When he uses the term “fundie,” Satan knows precisely the distinction in his mind that separates benign “fundamentalists” from objectionable “fundies.” The other 5 billion people in the world are not privy to his thought process, however, and are therefore justified in just considering him to be a narrow-minded bigot who describes people he doesn’t like by perjorative, stereotyped labels. By majority vote, then, even if Satan does not personally feel like a bigot, the world perceives him as such.

43

You are right Nurlman. I’ve changed my views. I will no longer make the distinction between a “Fundie” or a “Jeezoid” and all other Christians. From now on I’ll just assume that all Christians are assholes. If a Christian such as Daniel cannot see the difference between Joe and Sally Smith who go to church every Sunday and an asshole who uses the bible to justify torturing his children, why should I?

I held the father in the story up as someone who fits my definition and mine alone, of a “Fundie”. If others agree with my definition of the term than fine, and it seems that Satan and others do agree with it.

No Christian here was willing to defend his actions “in the name of the lord”, yet many took exception to the terms as being pejorative. Fine, I’ll drop the distinction since that is what you want. But from now on it seems that in my vocabulary Christian will now be the pejorative, and there will be no distinction between Joe and Sally Smith and the father in the story.

Ask and you shall receive.

44

I can see both differences and similarities between the Smith family and the individual under discussion. One similarity is that both are (persumably fundamentalist) Christians, one difference is that they choose to express their religious views in different ways. When you choose to refer to someone as a “fundie”, it may not be clear to people other than yourself what distingiushing characteristics include people in your definition. Religion is at least partially an objective quality, assholeness is wholly subjective. While you (and others) may argue that you only label people who are both assholes and fundamentalists as “fundies”, other people may disagree with you over the assholeishness of those people, leaving only being a fundamentalist as the common characteristic in their eyes.

I’m not sure if this is partially directed at me, but since I was the first to use the term ‘pejorative’ in relation to the words being used, let me state for the record that I’m not a Christian.

45

  1. Not sure why anyone…Christian or not…needs to defend the actions of a whack-job who chains kids to a bed…anymore than I feel the need to defend idiots who throw paint and blood on people wearing fur coats (even though “I” don’t believe in wearing fur coats.)

  2. You certainly did NOT hold the father up as “my definition, and mine alone” of Fundie (and other posters may just happen to agree with that) …you said

“If you get your dander up when you see terms like “Fundie” and “Jeezoid” keep in mind the people in this article are whom most of us are referring to”

I read that as…MOST people in here who use the terms fundie or jeezoid mean “people who chain their kids to bed posts, like the people in the article”

And to be clear, I do not consider myself persecuted by the terms or the thread…since I don’t consider nyself to be either a fundamentalist or a fundie (if there is a difference between the terms) …however I would just echo Amoks post about common understanding of terms vs. individual uses of those terms

46

Y’know, Drain’ems, I had actually come up with this line of argument last night, but didn’t post it as I didn’t want to keep ranting in a single thread. However…

I believe a certain Mr. Jackson has shown that a black man can become a white man :smiley:

47

What, are you willfully playing dumb, or did you just pick your username from a hat?

So, your definitions of “Christian” and “Jeezoid” are the only correct ones. If somebody calls themself a Christian, and it doesn’t agree with your definition, they are clearly mistaken. In fact, everybody who disagrees with you on this is wrong. Hmmmm. You’re starting to sound more bigoted yourself, with every sentence.

Whose majority vote? Did you just pull a poll out of your ass?!?! MY experience here has been that the majority of posters have absolutely no problem with Satan’s definition of the word. Hell, I starting using the word, meaning exactly the same thing, before I saw other people here using to mean exactly what I meant.

OTOH, if you really are speaking for “the world”, I guess this means I am officially “not of this world” (big surprise, I know).

48

Look folks, lets be reasonable here. We ALL agree that the father in the op was an “asshole”, a “nutcase”. a 'loonie", or any other nasty name you want to throw at him. Nobody is, or can defend that sorry excuse for a human. I agree that him using the Bible to justify his sorry-ass actions makes him possibly even worse- but in my case it is becuase he is commiting heresy also.

But, using racial/religious bigoted pejoritives is simply not done, and is not mature- no matter how much the recipient deserves tham. John McCain admitted HE was wrong for doing so- and there were no more deserving targets than the inhuman monsters that tortured him.
Now, satan, you have said over & over I am 'all alone" in my views, and 'everyone agrees with you". I think here, it is clear that I am not alone.

John- you should be ashamed of yourself. I have time & time again defended satans right to be disgusted with “assholes”- but his remarks make it clear that unless you a a “good- non-confrontational religious person”- he hates you, and because of your faith, not your ‘assholeness’. And that is bigotry. After all, some members of the KKK claim they hate only the “bad niggers”

49

Daniel, I hereby declare you as “Repetitive Rubbish Boy”. Your subtitle is “Ignorer of Logic, Glosser-Overer of Alternative Viewpoints, and All-Around Grade-A Dumbshit.”

To recap my point, I shall provide play-by play analysis of what you’ve contributed to this thread (and every other thread like this), and how people react:

DITWD: X!

Others: No, not X.

DITWD: X!

Others: No, not X!

DITWD: X!

Others: No, you fucking asshole, not X!

DITWD: See, you lost your temper, I win! X! X! X!

50

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SPOOFE Bo Diddly *
**

But, you can tell he’s black inside cos he can dance. :smiley:
Am I wrong or was the OPer’s disgust of the father not only because of the torture, but also the justification?

The fundies that are spoken of by him are the type that can biblical justify ANYTHING they do, no matter how rude or unpleasant. These people deserve the term fundie as an insult.

But, when Satan calls Nav a fundie I assume its taken as a compliment.

When Satan and Spoof attack DITWD, they do so based on sound scientific principals, i,e that his idiocy is demonstrable, repeatable and predictable

51

Except, Old spoofers, there are others here going: “well, I agree with DITWD-X”.

You can scroll back, and read that I am not the only person in this thread that says that racial/religious pejoritive terms are wrong. Amok, Nurlman & don Jaime all agree with me, in the most part, and others to a lesser degree.

And several of you are attacking me personally, when all I said was: Don’t use bigoted language.

And I say it again- if you don’t want to be thought of as a bigot- don’t use their language.

52

Daniel, bigotry is an irrational prejudice against classes of people, such as hating on the basis of race, gender, or sexual orientation.

Nobody on this board hates all religious people. When we call someone a Jeezoid, we are denigrating an individual for being a jerk, not denigrating the entire class of monotheistic believers, or even all Christians.

Let me repeat myself: Calling someone a “fundie” or a “Jeezoid” is name calling an individual for being an irrational Bible basher. We have had a rash of numb-skulled people whose particular hobby-horse happened to be fundamentalist Christianity, like FriendofGod. If a New Age crystal worshipper started posting rambling, poorly worded, evangelistic posts, he or she would probably get called a “rockhead.” Is that an attack on the entire class of New Agers? No, it’s an attack on one idiot.
Christians who show intelligence and kindness in their posts get nothing but respect. Stop your whining.

53

Slight hijack:

I think you’re all missing the real point:

Just as the Columbine Shootings proved that Violent video games and movies cause bad behavior, this incident that the Bible does the same. Our government needs to enact legislation soon aimed at protecting our children and insane criminals from this influence.

Perhaps a letter writing campaign should be started. Write your Congressman: “Ban violent books! Ban the bible!”

P.S. I’m glad that this thread is in the Pit.

54

FoG and I have actually come to a modicum of agreement over in the Pizza Parlor on precisely the subject we got into war here about. While he still insists on the “you can be healed of your gayness” philosophy, he’s gotten quite mellow about the idea that if the church condemns people, regardless of race, color, gender, or sexual orientation, it’s failing in what its Founder said it should do.

So progress does happen…albeit slowly.

55

Polycarp: The amount of patience you have with these types would make Job jealous…

Yer pal,
Satan

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56

This ain’t gonna be pretty. First the research, then two polite responses, then the thumb-ripping.

First, I’ve been trying to research “fundy” and have had little luck. It’s in none of the standard dictionaries online. If I get a chance in the next few days to get my hands an OED I’ll see what it says.

Here’s two minor definitions. First, the All One Wicca Dictionary of Paganism:

Now, The Fundy Dictionary/Translator:

One says it is, the other says it isn’t. Not very helpful.

Before I get to the heart of the matter:

First I’ve heard of this from Christians. Do you have a cite? I’d appreciate it.

Fair enough, but I’d be real careful around gaybashers who consider homosexuality a “lifestyle choice.” They might use your argument for abuse. Anti-Semites are also dangerous, since Jews are defined by a religion as well as an ethnic background. This is part of why I’m charry of using “fundy.” I don’t want to help the idiots.

But I’ve got another fish to fry:

And how is this different from:

Part of that bears repeating.

It’s the same damn thing. You didn’t change your mind at all; you always considered a vast assortment of Christians your antagonists and dared them to defend the undefendable. You even specified which one you wanted to speak up, the clumsy, dogmatic DITWD, a slow moving target if there ever was one. You came looking for trouble. A lot of us, me included, went down the rabbit warren of whether “fundy” is a slur, when we should have bashed your thick head for saying, “If you disagree with my choice of words, you support child abuse.”

And your little stunt netted little for you:

To coin a phrase: DUH!

What kind of pigfutzer are you? You set up a straw man on a slippery slope and then get pissed when no one takes the bait? And you unchain DITWD so you can get your jollies while more coherent posters throw rocks at his mushmouthed rantings? Do you genuinely believe that earnest Bible-thumpers think child torture is a holy obligation, and this guy is not braindead even by the strictest standards of the hard-core fundamentalists? Up yours. Fuck you, the horse you rode in on, yo’ mama, the doctor for delivering you, and the nurse for not slapping the doctor’s fingers away so you’d go thud on the floor. Twerp.

57

Fair enough (as long as I don’t get the thumb-ripping! :)), though my response in these situations would be, no, sexual orientation is not a choice most likely (and then provide evidence from studies to the anecdotal fact that every gay peerson I know says it was within them all along).

And there ARE “fundie” Jews. Most of them happen to be in Isreal throwing rocks at ambulances that dare try and pass on the streets that they barricaded to prevent people from going out after sunset. These people are also assholes - especially since the Jewish laws say G-d forgives you breaking a rule if breaking it saves a life.

I lived in a neighborhood that was very Orthodox in Brooklyn, and it is possible that some of them might have had views that made me think of them as “fundies,” but they were an insular people, so I always assumed they were okay. One of them lent me a phone once when my grandma was in the hospital and my phone died. They wouldn’t let me returnit either, until a holiday was up. Okay, that’s a tangent… :slight_smile:

Anyway, at least we can simply agree to disagree and I know that when you read my use of the word, you won’t think I’m an asshole. Well, not for that at any rate… :smiley:

Yer pal,
Satan

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58

You misunderstand. I didn’t intend to give the impression that any Christian sect I know of has practices this… er… practice (as far as I know, it’s limited to certain small groups mostly in Africa). My point in mentioning this is this: Just because someone believes something, it doesn’t make it right (what I was referring to was DITWD’s anal claim that the man referred to in the OP wasn’t a Christian… my response was meant to convey that if he calls himself “Christian”, I will refer to him along those lines).

59

I agree. Just one of my more fussy arguments. It’s not like gaybashers are famous for their coherent, well-thought-out arguments anyway.

Still odd that “fundy” isn’t in the dictionary, considering how common it is on the Net. Even with “-Canada”, search engines can turn up a ton of these. We really should get on to these people. :slight_smile:

Spoofe - Thanks! Had me worried there for a sec.