In what way is trump illegitimate?

Representative John Lewis from Georgia has declared Trump to be an illegitimate president and I have to wonder why he would believe so.

Russia. Link. Pretty weak.

Sounds like you only watch FOX news, RT [Russian Television], or read news on Facebook?

If that is the case, search for the words…

Trump election Russia

Trump election fake news

Trump election FBI

After each search, click on news at the top of the google page. Then read mainstream and foreign news stories from the following…

UK Guardian
UK Times
Al Jazeera
NY Times
Washington Post
LA Times

All of the above have been SAYING THE SAME things about the election for months! How could you miss all these stories?

Also, following is the US Intelligence report on tampering with the election by Russia…

Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections…

Because Trump is a complete bastard?

Trump was legitimately elected. The various lies and dirty tricks during the campaign may have significantly influenced the outcome, but as far as I know people voted, their votes were counted, the Electoral College did its thing and Trump was the winner of this process. Even if one believes Russia had a material influence on the election, it does not appear to be in the realm of tampering with the electoral mechanism.

There is certainly an argument on a metaphorical level that the aforementioned lies and dirty tricks tainted Trump’s victory to the extent that one could question whether he would have been legitimately elected without them, and of course the fact that he got fewer popular votes than Clinton diminishes any assertions regarding a “mandate”.

But he was elected according to the system we’ve got, which in the end is the only thing that matters.

Except there is no indication that Russia or anyone else hacked the votes records. Yes they may, emphasis on may since it is by no means sure that Russia actually did it, have hacked the DNC servers and published embarrassing stuff that democrats actually did. How is that any different from somebody releasing videos of what Romney said in a private donor meeting. Seems like whoever published those emails was just doing the job that the American journalists wouldn’t do for themselves.

Are you saying you think journalists should illegally hack private computer records?

ETA: Also: hacking computer records is illegal. Recording Romney’s speech, AFAIK, was not.

I personally find it amazing how before the election. the ‘magnetic poles were reversed’ (trying to use a physics metaphor, bear with me :rolleyes:). Trump was said to be ‘immature’ a ‘man child’ and even Elizabeth Warren said something on the lines of him being a pathetic coward. People were worried that his rhetoric would incite violence among protestors and that they would be rioting in the streets…

Now it seems that Trump is the most mature among some Anti-Trump protesters, celebrities, and politicians. Meryl Streep speaking out against him, Vice-President Pence being booed, people getting depressed over this.

This is great entertainment for me as a European :D. Don’t know how Americans are experiencing this.

His rhetoric did incite violence - and at his own rallies. And even though he won, there is evidence of his supporters subsequently engaging in… let’s call it “poor behavior”. And you’re comparing that to booing, speeches and being depressed?

Serious question: DID Deep Throat violate any laws in his involvement with Woodward and Bernstein?

I’m saying that journalists need to look beyond official sources. Today’s journalists are too lazy. The point is though that the hacked records were true records of bad behavior on the part of the Democrat leadership. It’s like if you find out your wife is cheating on you by searching her email and she acts indignant that you invaded her privacy.

The fact of the matter is for a president to be illegitimate there would have something wrong with the election. However there is no indication that any voter fraud or anything else that resulted in the wrong person being declared the winner. He won by a significant number of electoral votes.

That’s really the thing- by all indications, the electoral process was unaffected in terms of vote counting, etc… so he was legitimately elected. The “illegitimate” cries are more of a spirit of the law rather than a letter of the law thing.

Personally, I think the largest disgruntlement on the part of most Democrats is that he lost the popular vote, but won the Electoral College. In their eyes, that makes him instantly questionable in terms of legitimacy, even though the process worked as designed.

Couple that with the potential results of the Russian hacking and Trump’s ties to Russia/blackmail by Russia, and he’s looking doubly sketchy as a person who won despite losing the popular vote, and with some kind of a boost in the court of public opinion from illegal foreign sources.

Now despite that, I think the Democratic animus has long since gone into the realm of petulance and whiny anus-pain. I mean, the only real reason to protest the guy and pitch such a toddler-esque set of fits is the hacking. The rest is just being dismayed that he’s an asshole and that your candidate didn’t win. But the Democrats seem to think that the assholery and lack of commitment to their values is a valid reason to pull stunts and act out like children about it.

Nope. Pretty much our disgruntlement is over his voters having the sort of blinders that allow someone to write something like that nonsense above. If you really can’t see what’s wrong with Trump, and has been wrong with him throughout this election, your moral and ethical compass is so far maladjusted that we’re really not speaking the same language any more.

Michael Moore’s six reasons Trump is not a legitimate President

He is going into office in violation of corruption laws.

and the Comey Hatch act violation.

Those are my two best.

That is an evasive answer if I ever saw one. The question is whether you believe it is okay to break the law in furtherance of a political campaign. I assume you are saying yes?

So like, whatever the Watergate burglars may have gotten, you think it is perfectly acceptable for the Nixon campaign to have used it?

This is really one of those questions that can be answered with a simple yes or no.

Given that Lewis boycotted Bush 43’s inauguration for the same reason, I assume he believes that the electoral college is improper and that a president is not “legitimately” elected unless he wins a plurality of the national vote total.

So, the Constitution is wrong.



So far, the only Russian interference that anyone has proved is that they supported propaganda and (probably) hacked the DNC to release embarrassing emails and keep the negative press on Hillary. If that’s all that happened, it certainly doesn’t challenge Trump’s legitimacy. No one has produced any evidence that they managed to falsify vote counts or anything.

There has also been speculation that Trump and/or his campaign coordinated with Russian intelligence services to do these things. That, if show to be true, would, in my opinion.

His presidency is legitimate.

But it was also artificially influenced, not only by Russia, but by the FBI director. (Russia maliciously, the FBI director out of mere incompetence.)