In which I blame Democrats for Donald Trump

The BBQ Pit
1

Since I’m only partially serious here, I figure the PIt is the most appropriate place for this thread.

Let’s go back to the Bush years. Let’s remember two fierce Bush critics from the paleocon side of things, Pat Buchanan and Lou Dobbs. Both criticized Bush for things like the Iraq war, which liberals cheered and rightly so, but both of them were also going on about outsourcing, trade, and immigration. For a few years they had pretty much zero pushback on those subjects, because the right sorta agreed with them on those issues even if they didn’t like their criticism of the Bush administration, and liberals didn’t really push back because they were following the ancient “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” doctrine. So Dobbs especially spent years telling viewers that their problems were being caused by the Bush administration, and also brown people, whether overseas or coming into this country. Once Obama was elected and Dobbs’ xenophobia transformed into birtherism, he was forced to resign from CNN.

While I’m only partially serious in that Buchanan and Dobbs did not lead directly to Donald Trump, their arguments which went mostly unchallenged and seemed to be non-partisan, which gave them a better rep among independent voters than would have been the case had they been seen as partisan hacks, certainly contributed to the spread of anti-immigrant views. If liberals hadn’t been so eager to tout Dobbs as reasonable right wing voices he would never have gained the traction he did, and Trump might have had a few hundred thousand less supporters than he does now.

2

Well, you blame them for literally everything else, no matter how ridiculous. You might as well complete the set.

3

Zero pushback? Before I start digging up cites, let me ask: are you high?

4

This is a reach. Even for you.

Well done, pat yourself on the back!

5

Pat Buchanan and Lou Dobbs get ignored because they’re totally irrelevant. If you count the people who take them seriously and double it, you might get half of the share of the voters that Lincoln Chafee had before quitting the race.

Donald Trump is your baby, not ours.

6

If Democrats are responsible for Trump, then YAY DEMOCRATS!!! I don’t think they have nearly that level of Machiavellian skill, so I think the OP is bunk.

7

Whole lotta crazy in the OP.

8

Oh yeah, we loved Pat Buchanan. Everything about him. Liberals just couldn’t get enough.

9

I frequently was, back then… is that why I have no recollection of Lou Dobbs and Pat Buchanan ever being considered darlings of the left?

10

I wouldn’t say darlings, but definitely approved of when they went after GWB, even though GWB, despite his policies, would now be considered a much more reasonable Republican than they. In those arguments they really should have been taking Bush’s side(Iraq war excepted of course).

11

It might surprise you that liberals don’t spend a lot of time watching Lou Dobbs or Pat Buchanan; usually we only hear about their antics when we talk to our racist uncles at Thanksgiving, or right wing nutters post about them on the Straight Dope.

And for the record, I remember Jon Steward doing many, many segments on Dobbs being nuts and Stewart was pretty much the leader of liberal outrage during the Bush years.

12

Rightly or wrongly, Pat Buchanan has been labeled as an anti-Semitic racist since at least 1990 by mostly every newspaper or political discussion from both the right and left. He has zero influence or political capital anymore. He had a nice short run in 1996, but lost Super Tuesday to Bob Dole. He’s pretty much a smarter, more experienced version of David Duke according to the mainstream media. He’s a lot better in real life, though, once you get to know him.

Lou Dobbs was discredited by the left for his birther views, and largely ignored by both sides for being irrelevant and not being a ratings superstar. Dobbs is sorta a populist anyway, and sounds and looks like an old school newsman, so did not get as much heat as the other right wing talking heads.

Not sure why those two were singled out. There are dozens of right wingers who have similar views on immigration, who have been writing articles and hosting radio shows for decades.

Anyway, many of Trump’s opinions have “street cred” with the Common Person in the states I have been in- taxi cab talk, dinner table discussions, and sports bars. He has his finger on the pulse for a large percentage of Americans, perhaps 50% share his general views on immigration and Islam.

If anyone “created” the run he is currently having, it is the left wing media who actually covered his initial press conference where he said he is running and talked about Mexicans. The media wanted moral outrage, but they gave him exposure and millions of people liked what he said.

The media should have ignored him announcing his candidacy, or downplayed it, just like they don’t cover other celebrities running or flirting with running. For example, where is the coverage for the Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern ticket? None- because it is clearly a joke, just like Trump was a joke 6 months ago, but turned into a force by the media. The genie is out of the bottle now, and The Progressives can’t put him back in.

Remember, FOX tried to discredit Trump during the second debate, and many intellectual conservative writers hate him, so the world is not so black and white.

13

And to ring out 2015, Trump pulled a rubber adaher mask over his head and started trolling for votes.

14

I’m actually watching old Daily Shows and I"m up to 2007, having started in 2000, and I’ve seen nothing on Dobbs. That probably happened when Dobbs went birther.

15

This kind of explains how you’re so up on things and well informed.

2007 you say? How interesting!

16

It started in 2009 when Dobbs left CNN because they wouldn’t let him talk about being a birther on air. But then nobody really knew what Dobbs thought about politics before that, except that he sometimes grumbled about Latinos.

17

Yeah, he’s absolutely brutal to Hillary. Very fun to watch for me given what’s going on now. She must have been so confused, running into the Obama juggernaut and wondering what the hell had just happened. SNL had some pretty good skits on it too. I remember one debate skit where they ask Clinton some very hostile questions, then ask Obama, “Is there anything I can get you?” Then they give the floor to Obama girl(the real one), who sings her Obama ditty, which causes Clinton to interrupt to ask if they can debate real issues. The moderator goes, “Do not interrupt Obama girl!”

18

He was actually doing a lot of populist stuff about corporations shipping our jobs overseas and tying it to Bush administration policy. I used to argue with my normal foes about citing Lou Dobbs so favorably and was pretty annoyed at the time how important Dobbs was becoming. I wasn’t a fan of the Bush administration either, but guys like Dobbs weren’t exactly alternatives, anymore than Trump is now.

19

And BTW, by the time GWB was getting slammed for the neocon adventures, ISTM Pat Buchanan was generally considered a museum piece by both mainstream right and virtually all of the left.

20

And let me just reiterate that I’m only half serious here, I do remember the Dobbs and Buchanan thing with annoyance, but I recognize that Trump is mainly our fault. The Republican establishment failed, the Tea Party is failing, and the disaffected members of our base are being seduced by his rhetoric. Democrats are only responsible to the extent that some of Trump’s supporters also happen to be disaffected Democrats.