In which I defend stupid, ignorant people.

[AllWalker]

@zweisamkeit

And as to the first question, think of it as something more like this: when I was at uni, we had a good chunk of international students. Obviously if they made it into a university, they won’t be a moron*. There are still going to be things they struggle with because they are in a strange culture. Even with all the international students (so you’d think people would see how they often are very smart, just like intranational students are often very smart) around, people would often think that one was dumb because he didn’t understand something that’s obvious to us.

Perhaps it was something as simple as leaving your expensive stuff out for everyone to see, while you leave for 10-15 minutes to go to the bathroom and grab a coffee. Then their stuff gets stolen. Wow, how stupid! Except that they grew up in a close knit community where the people they were around would watch everyone’s items if they had to to run somewhere.

Or maybe they didn’t get how to use a vending machine, even though god, it’s so obvious! And even when you explain it to them, they’re still confused! Man, they’re dumb!

But no, they’re not. They just don’t know this. And that’s tying into the posts that say people are confusing intelligence with education. I agree, but what I’m saying is that a lot of people who will think someone is dumb or stupid is doing so because the so-called dumb/stupid person has a lack of education of the specific situation.

Yeah, I too hate it when strawmen act in a way that is inappropriate. :rolleyes:

Where exactly is anyone saying these things, that cultural differences = stupidity? What people seem to be saying is if you mix up your own silicone at home in a Tupperware container and shove it up your arse, you are stupid. Unless you can demonstrate:
A) A culture where home made butt boosting is a regular and acceptable occurance
B) That these people were from said culture.

Yes, I agree that not knowing how to use a vending machine, from lack of exposure to vending machines, is not stupidity. Anyone who says it is is a jerk. Good thing no one was saying that.

[Boyo_Jim]

@Stoid

Really? I don’t think that’s very hard. Intelligence is capacity, education is the thing intelligence gives you the capacity to make the most of. Raw components of a finished person.

Bush: He had max opportunity to get a top drawer education. Did he have the intelligence to make the most of it? I dont’ think so.

Obama: overflowing with natural intelligence, he was actually able to use that to make choices to maximize his opportunities to get the best possible education.

I should have said it’s very hard to distinguish intelligence as a (or THE) causative factor for a given act. If these two women had learned some different facts or been exposed to, oh, I dunno, more skeptical attitudes by their parents, would they have made the correct choices at the critical times?

Ignorance, stupidity, gullibility, who knows what might have led to a wrong choice? It could be that scammer had a really brilliant scheme that would fool most people – though I’d give odds that’s not the case with the “doctor” and the silicone injections.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@eleanorigby

I so don’t get this arbitrary dichotomy. This is usually how it is presented, too. Why are stupid people somehow seen as naturally more compassionate? How come intelligent people are usually characterized in these threads as boorish and cruel? Is it boorish and cruel to mock these young women who did a very, very stupid thing? I suppose it’s not the best manners, but really–is the OP walking into their hospital rooms, lecturing them on their stupidity? That would be boorish and cruel.

Frankly, most of the boorish and cruel people I’ve met in my life have been stupid as well. They tend not to have much perspective and they tend to not think things through. They also tend to keep others in line via bullying or teasing. None of these behaviors is limited to the stupid or the intelligent, of course, but the more enlightened tend to have better coping skills with the shit life hands them.

Human behavior will always be remarked upon. We are social animals and talk about others to learn our boundaries and our mores, among other things. It’s not so horrible to talk about this kind of thing. I don’t find it godawful to make a scathing remark (or 2 or 10) about 2 women who risked their lives in the way these 2 did. Stupidity costs us all a great deal of money, time and effort. You can feel sorry for them (and a small part of me does), but I am not going to defend their right to be stupid. I can’t see the outrage at Stoid’s thread. Or is this yet another example of no matter what topic is picked to be Pitted, it is all the Pitter’s fault, no matter what?

Nice post. It’s remarkably evident that in fact you were not dead and buried in a church along with your name. Good stuff.

Fuck Father MacKenzie, though. I would have came. To your funeral, that is.

[The_Second_Stone]

@even_sven

…
I’m going to defend ignorance here. Some people just aren’t that bright. They can’t just will themselves smarter. They can’t just work a little harder. You have no idea what it is like to be below average intelligence…

As is frequently pointed out on these boards, I am an idiot and I’m not all that bright. I know what it is like to be below average intelligence. With that said, I have a lot of sympathy for those less bright/educamated/smartier than meesa. I didn’t participate in the thread piling on the woman regarding the silicone in the butt because there but for the grace of God goes my bagel dog schlong. The woman in that thread clearly has mental problems and delusions of having a grand ass. I take no joy in the pain of the Harry & Lloyd. In fact, I’m so stupid, that it took me until now to realize that Dumb & Dumber got it’s names from Harold Lloyd. God, I am stupid!

It is very depressing to be stupid.

[Rigamarole]

As long as I can find ways to profit off the ignorance and stupidity of others, I ain’t mad at 'em for being that way.

[The_Second_Stone]

Bush was actually quite quick when he was younger. If you look at the clips of him in Fahrenheit 9/11 when he was running Arbusto he speaks in complete paragraphs quickly and charmingly. Something happened to him later. I will agree that he didn’t take advantage of his second to none educational opportunities and made decisions his whole life based on “gut” feelings which I take to mean nothing more than he wasn’t comfortable thinking beyond his prejudices. (And I mean prejudices in a non-racist way, because for all W’s many faults, I don’t think racism was one of them.)

[straight_man]

@featherlou

From a Darwinian perspective, stupid people taking themselves out of the gene pool is nothing but a good thing. Just sayin’.

Actually, featherlou, I’ve read both your posts, and yet I’m still pretty certain that Darwin was trying to explain why evolution happened, not what should happen, i.e. descriptive science is no way interchangeable with ethics.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@straight_man

Actually, featherlou, I’ve read both your posts, and yet I’m still pretty certain that Darwin was trying to explain why evolution happened, not what should happen, i.e. descriptive science is no way interchangeable with ethics.

True enough. Good thing I haven’t been talking about ethics then, isn’t it?

[straight_man]

@featherlou

True enough. Good thing I haven’t been talking about ethics then, isn’t it?

Sorry, so you can call something “good” without making any ethical judgment on it? That’s funny.

[Lynn_Bodoni]

And let’s not get too high on our own horses. In America I’m a pretty smart woman. In a sustenance farming village, I’m a total retard whose own stupidity will probably kill me soon after my first failed harvest.

No…in a sustenance farming village, you might be IGNORANT about farming. If you’re intelligent, you’ll probably be able to learn how to farm and all the associated skills. A stupid person will not be able to learn, or won’t learn very well. There’s a difference between stupidity and ignorance. Ignorance can be cured, with some effort. Stupidity is forever.

[ivan_astikov]

@The_Second_Stone

It is very depressing to be stupid.

No, ignorance IS bliss. I’d love to be a dumbfuck at times; life would be a lot easier if we didn’t have to think about stuff too deeply.

[Petrobey_Mavromihalis]

@ivan_astikov

I’d love to be a dumbfuck at times

This is so tempting . . .

Must resist . . .

[Martiju]

@Lynn_Bodoni

No…in a sustenance farming village, you might be IGNORANT about farming. If you’re intelligent, you’ll probably be able to learn how to farm and all the associated skills. A stupid person will not be able to learn, or won’t learn very well. There’s a difference between stupidity and ignorance. Ignorance can be cured, with some effort. Stupidity is forever.

This. Presumably the reason you haven’t died, even sven, is because you have the wherewithall to communicate with the people around you effectively, cooperate in ways that you are able and have a desire for learning that motivates you to build upon basic knowledge and avoid repeating mistakes. Many, many people seem unable to do this - or feel safer retreating into the comfort of a fixed view of the world or at least an environment where they will be informed by others and not reflect upon their own experience.

Stupidity then, in some ways, is the failure to grow up. Ignorance is where everyone starts from before they learn. Big difference.

That said, I get no enjoyment from hearing how people have suffered through their own stupidity (or ignorance) - but it’s clear that plenty of others do. I might see it as a particularly nasty character trait that is easily enjoyed through the anonymity of the internet but I guess most people see it as harmless ‘fun’.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@straight_man

Sorry, so you can call something “good” without making any ethical judgment on it? That’s funny.

I wasn’t calling anything good or bad; I was putting words in Darwin’s mouth.

[even_sven]

There is a difference between “hasn’t yet developed the skills to live successfully in this society” and “can’t develop the skills to live successfully in this society.”

You know what? Being either one of the doesn’t make you a bad, worthless, or immoral person.

Maybe “refuses to develop the skills to live successfully in this society” does, but I’m not so insightful and all-knowing that I can make that judgment, especially about people I’ve only known through one newspaper story.

Being unintelligent is a disability, just like any other. When someone gets run over by a truck because they are missing a leg and can’t outrun it, we don’t go “Well, that gimpy guy sure was one for Darwin! Another lame guy removed from the gene pool! By god, how can some people be so bad at walking? He shouldn’t even go outside if he can’t even outrun a truck. Thank god he didn’t have kids! What a piece of human garbage!”

[Atomicflea]

@even_sven

Being unintelligent is a disability, just like any other. When someone gets run over by a truck because they are missing a leg and can’t outrun it, we don’t go “Well, that gimpy guy sure was one for Darwin! Another lame guy removed from the gene pool! By god, how can some people be so bad at walking? He shouldn’t even go outside if he can’t even outrun a truck. Thank god he didn’t have kids! What a piece of human garbage!”

True enough, but we don’t have to empathize, either.

[Ichini_Sanshigo]

@straight_man

Sorry, so you can call something “good” without making any ethical judgment on it? That’s funny.

“Good” isn’t an ethical judgment, it’s a value judgment.

[Dangerosa]

@Martiju

That said, I get no enjoyment from hearing how people have suffered through their own stupidity (or ignorance) - but it’s clear that plenty of others do. I might see it as a particularly nasty character trait that is easily enjoyed through the anonymity of the internet but I guess most people see it as harmless ‘fun’.

Honestly, it depends on how much damage was done (as John Stewart said when Dick Cheney shot his friend, comedy gold if he is only minorly hurt, tragic if he dies), what the stupidity was (there is a certain amount of humor value in wanting an ass like JLo’s just out of the gate), and what effect it has on me. I’m quite upset when stupid people got mortgages they couldn’t afford without understanding the balloon clause, which helped create a recession (granted, I’m also upset at the idiots that gave them the mortgage - both were stupid) - and both have affected me this year financially since the recession will cost me at the very least bonuses - and maybe my job.

If getting kicked in the nads weren’t funny, it wouldn’t be such a stock piece of comedy. Even small children laugh when Mike lands on his crotch in Monsters, Inc. I suspect its simply human nature - and while I try and nurture compassion for all my fellow human beings, I really can’t get too worked up about it when I fail, and since I’m human enough to fail, I get even less worked up about it when someone else fails.

[Sapo]

Good OP.

The thing is that in the case of the linked thread, as in most other similar cases, we just don’t have enough information to know whether they were being stupid or ignorant.

We don’t point and laugh at people before germ theory became widely accepted. They died horrible preventable deaths for not knowing. If a modern doctor died for not dressing a wound, then yeah, Darwin Award, hahaha.

That this happened in the US of A, where we assume/hope education should be teaching people better than that is really sad.

[Cat_Whisperer]

Jesus, some of you guys seem to be taking the idea of Darwinian selection awfully personally.