In which I Pit the poor (overreacting)!!!!

The BBQ Pit
61

To explain further, since in my anger I hit post instead of preview, the fine dining establishment I worked in was well set up to accomodate just about any request the customer could dream of, since we had Team service. Each station had it’s own busboy, back waiter (who handles the kitchen side, entering orders, timing the entress-to-apps, bringing out and serving the food), a front waiter (which was my position, spieling the menu, of which I had to know EVERY ingredient of EVERY dish on the menu, up to and including what spices were used in it’s preparation, selling wine, of which I had to take a month of wine classes to learn how wine is made, what the difference between champagne and sparkling wine is, what varietals produce what wines, what regions various varietals are grown in, etc. My job was information and lots of it, I had to be able to answer damn near any question the customer might have about any wine or dish we served, and if I didn’t know the answer, I had to know where I could FIND the answer in a hurry.) and a Captain who oversaw the entire team. We had one person whose entire job consisted of roaming from station to station filling water glasses.

There’s a monumental difference between 5 people working in one station and a restaurant where each station is tended by one waitress and a busboy (if that, I’ve been to plenty of diners where the waitress did both jobs). THAT difference is what makes 20 separate checks possible and impossible to accomodate.

62

Wow. Go to Philly for a few days and look what happens.

At the risk of getting shot to pieces in the crossfire, I will say this about separate checks: If we ever want them, we will ask in advance if the establishment can do them. If they say no, we’ll probably eat there anyway and figure it out on our own. I may have been an English major, but I can still do long division.

We’ve been racing the past two weeks, so no group anything has happened, but I will keepeveryone posted.

And not to hijack my own rant, but (and I’m using hyperbole to make a point, so all you people who have to save for weeks to buy penny candy, back off) I had a pretty decent angry mologue going this weekend. The gist of it went like this:

You can always tell who you can have lunch with in a group setting by this one simple test: Let’s say you know that the cost of a certain item at the market is $13.60. Ask all the people you know how much that item costs. The ones that say “about fifteen bucks” are the ones with whom you eat in a group environment. The ones who say “Thirteen-sixty” are the ones to whom you make excuses.

The major problem I have with all this is that all of us are at least at the point where three bucks here and there is not that big a deal, or at least SHOULD NOT BE. Even if I got shorted twice a week by our system, I’d never notice the difference and I don’t think anyone else would either. If we go out to the bars, I don’t have to have a scoresheet to see who bought which round and whose turn it is next. And quite frankly, I don’t want to hang out with the guy who does.

63

Oh, and Mr. B, how am I quite lucky?

I mean, besides the fact that my rant-inducing problems are quite minor, of course. It’s not like anyone’s stolen my car or anything. But how am I lucky?

64

Hero Pup: You’re lucky because you have ten fairly-close friends with whom you may have this type of meal. Damn the CAG, but you’ve got a rare and enviable situation. Hopefully you’ll never have to move away from your mates, unlike yours truly… :frowning:

65

Cerri and Canvas, I think Mr B was attempting to be funny and failed miserably at it. That, or he’s trying to appear cultured and sophisticated. Unfortunately he just looks like an asshole with no class or manners.

I too worked in nice restaurants and agree 200% with everything Cerri said in her last post.

66

Yep. This particular instance was the first time this had happened in this restaurant. There’s a saying: Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement. This was a case of bad judgement due to lack of experience. The owner (not manager) was not a cook himself, and so was not entirely cognizant of the fact that this was going to be too much for the kitchen. However, the experience gained from this bad judgement resulted in future good judgement: not accepting reservations for such large groups again.

This was a fairly small restaurant, with a grand total of three cooks. One day cook and two night cooks. There really wasn’t room in the kitchen for more than two people, but the day cook stayed on to help out, so all three of us were there. There was one extra waitress on duty that night. Most of our waitresses worked second jobs, so most weren’t available to cover an extra shift.

We had served largish groups before, in the 15-20 range. But in those cases, everybody didn’t want to eat at exactly the same time. These were groups that usually arrived a few at a time, and people ordered when they felt like it (separate checks and all). And they would order different things. Your point is good and valid and I agree with it. Most places that are set up for “banquets” do have a specific “banquet menu”. That menu will offer dishes that are specifically designed to be prepared in large quantities - and more importantly, can mostly be prepared ahead of time. But, as we were not set up for banquets, we were not equipped for preparing things in advance (can’t really cook steaks in advance anyway).

So, based on previous experience with smaller groups, we weren’t expecting everyone to order exactly the same thing. And to tell the truth, everybody in a group ordering the same thing is a bit of trouble, no matter what they order. Simply because so many things need to be cooked on a certain appliance - as I mentioned with the porterhouse steaks, my grill is only so big. Or take waffles, if you’re eating breakfast. A group of ten people who all want Belgian waffles is in for a wait, because the kitchen probably doesn’t have ten waffle irons.

BTW - I didn’t say any of this was the customers’ fault, nor did I mean to imply such. I was simply presenting a real-life example to illustrate the logistic issues of serving large groups of people in restaurants that aren’t designed for large groups. lezlers was mentioning the “ripple effect”, and that point was being overlooked. My guess was that there was more to Una’s group being turned away than simply the issue of separate checks.

67

“my problem” lez was what I saw as a snippy/snotty attitude that you displayed towards Una, wherein you were assuring her that you knew all about the restaurants side of it, but (obviously) knew nothing about the needs of the expense account customer. it was the** tone** of your post about the size of her expense account etc, while you overlooked and ignored the rationals for her needing what she needed. It seemed ironic to me that on the one hand you were chastizing her for not understanding how the restaurant’s needs/policies would work, but at the same time committing the same sort of infraction by making unwarrented assumptions about how her expense account works.

Una my post wasn’t aimed at explaining the intricacies of your co’s expense account policies, it was an attempt to demonstrate to those who haven’t had expense accounts that there are individual regulations about what/how the receipts need to be.

68

Class or manners, hey? I don’t believe I’ve called you any names.

My scenario had you eating at the Denny’s, awaiting the arrival of your Megamelt Slam. I’m glad I lumped you all together for brunch; none of the three of you can seem to read worth a damn, which appears to be the thread of continuity in your tag-team grudge match against Una Persson.

Don’t let me stand in the way of your scattershot assault on Una and her billions, though. Just know that while you’re continuing your “classy” discussion, it might be a very good idea to get on the same page as the target of your bile. In fact, I suspect your 200% agreement may well assert the basis for your resistance to separate checks.

69

Well, considering I did know about the restaurant side of it, which obviously Una didn’t, I don’t see a problem with that. As far as snotty attitudes go, I believe she was the one to cast the first stone on that one.

[quoe]It was the tone** of your post about the size of her expense account etc, while you overlooked and ignored the rationals for her needing what she needed. It seemed ironic to me that on the one hand you were chastizing her for not understanding how the restaurant’s needs/policies would work, but at the same time committing the same sort of infraction by making unwarrented assumptions about how her expense account works.**
[/quote]

It doesn’t matter why she needed what she needed, that wasn’t what was at issue. What was at issue was whether or not the resturant could accomidate her request. Her reasons for needing it had no bearing on whether or not the resturant was willing to, or even had the capacity to, accomidate her needs. The way her expense account works doesn’t matter. It’s not going to magically change the resturants computer system, kitchen layout, or staffing.

And again, that doesn’t matter. Restaurants are designed certain ways. If they’re not equipped to accomidate a party that wants 20 seperate checks, they’re not equipped to accomidate a party that wants 20 seperate checks. The individual kinks in your expense account makes no difference in the resturants ability to accomidate you.

70

Ah, a passive aggresive type. Gotta love it.

Yes, I got the whole eating at Denny’s thing. I assumed you were alalogizing. Perhaps I gave you too much credit.

Re: the 200% comment. Ever heard of exaggeration? I would think you were again trying to be witty, but if you #1. think I would actually believe you meant eating at Denny’s or #2. Actually think I’d believe you took my 200% comment seriously, I stand by my previous insults, and add in a “pompus” for good measure. As far as being on the same page as Una, please read my previous post to wring.

71

Oh, and don’t bother taking any cheap shots at my obvious typos above, I noticed them. The hamsters are being horrible tonight, and didn’t feel like waiting an extra 20 minutes to preview. So save your keystrokes.

72

If I’m not allowed to admit that I don’t see the other viewpoint, but respect it, and step aside because I see that the argument is only going to make two people who normally have no contact with each other (let alone no past arguments) go hammer and tongs over an issue that is a random trivial gripe o’ life as is posted about every damn minute here in the Pit, then I guess I’m going to have to come back in and start responding again.

lezlers, please examine Page 1. My first post in this thread may have been “snotty”, but it was not directed personally at you or anyone in this thread. Your next post after that was directed entirely and exactly at me, with clear intent. You personalized it, not me, and this is not open to interpretation, it is a fact verifiable by anyone who clicks on the first page of this thread. Not that I’m griping about that fact, as that’s what one expects for posting in the Pit, but please don’t let on or even imply that I was “snotty” to you first.

I said I was sorry for raising my online voice and I meant it, and yet you are not willing to just let that go without further negative comment. Do you really want to get into this again? Because I will not stand for people taking shots at me when I’ve tried to back away from the conflict simply because I’m tired of creating more enemies than friends by flaming people over issues that aren’t really that big of a deal.

I leave it entirely up to you.

73

Lez did you really just tell us collectively that the customer’s needs/wants are unimportant in your business???

especially an odd stance since there are, in fact, restaurants that can accomodate the needs of Una and others.

And you still don’t recognize the irony of you lambasting Una for not having a complete understanding of your side of the business while absolutely rejecting that her side may have needs as well.

74

On lezler’s side, there is a limit to the lengths a business can go to satisfy a customer’s needs. I think that splitting up a check a few different ways is within those lengths. However, management needs to address those needs with proper procedures.

To expect a waiter to come up with an efficient way to do 10 separate checks on the fly is a bit ridiculous. He will spend way too much time managing it. To say that “we aren’t set up to do it, go away” is silly too. Set yourself up to be able to handle it! That way, everyone is happy, the customers get their separate checks, the wait staff doesn’t have to waste too much time on it, and the business sells product.

75

I must be missing something here … I think Una made this point, and I really am not clear whether it was answered … if you give notice in advance that your party of twenty will want separate checks (and I can see that it’s reasonable for a restaurant to require that), then why is this any more complicated than serving twenty separate people? If you have twenty people wanting to be fed, does it matter that they all know each other?

76

Mr. B, whatever you may think, I wasn’t attacking Una, and if it at any point seemed like I was, it was entirely unintentional and unrelated to Una’s quandry.

All I said in my very first post was that I agreed with lezlers at least partially in that SOME restaurants are not set up to handle a situation similar to hers, or some may not, in fact, feel the extra effort is worth it. I also clearly stated that in any reputable fine dining restaurant this would be a non-issue as most will do anything short of cutting up your food and feeding it to you.

Where in the world did you get the idea that I was tag-teaming ANYONE, let alone Una?? ALL I stated was that I agreed with lezlers in that SOME RESTAURANTS CANNOT HANDLE OR ARE UNWILLING TO HANDLE SEPARATE CHECK REQUESTS.

Explain to me how that statement is false, and further PROVE to me that statement is false.

Further, I still don’t appreciate your pathetic attempt to be snide, but just what exactly are you trying to say? You’re obviously trying to insult me, but how? By saying I might occasionally eat at Denny’s? That might certainly be a slam to my tastebuds, but I don’t still don’t see your point.

And how in the hell does my choosing to eat in ANY establishment, be it Denny’s or Gibson’s (one of the best, most popular, most expensive fine dining steakhouses in the Chicagoland area, if you are not knowledgeable about Chicago fine dining), have to do with anything in this argument??

I’M not the one complaining about service, restaurant accomodations, or cheapasses who haven’t the faintest fucking shred of civility and try to duck out of their portion of the bill.

ALL I did was partially support and further try to elaborate on some of what lezlers was trying to explain, on behalf of the restaurant industry in general.

How that nets me a snide fucking insult is beyond me, but then again, you might just be an arrogant asshole. Stranger things have happened.

77

Una, I wasn’t directing anything at you. Others had commented on this thread and it was necessary to bring up your posts to provide explanations about why I said what I said. I respect that you want out of the argument, that is why I’ve made no further comments directed to you. I’ve never interacted with you on the boards and I have no ill feelings towards you. But I will not shrink away from other’s comments because it would involve bringing up a past argument that you had make to provide context. As far as I’m concerned, the debate between you and I ended with my final respectful post to you. I’m sorry if you’re upset that your name came up again.

wring, you just completely missed the entire point of my post. Congratulations. That’s very impressive, as I thought I was being crystal clear. Of course the diners needs are important, don’t be silly. But within the contained issue of seperate checks the diners needs as far as their expense account goes, are not an issue if the resturant cannot accomodate those needs in the first place. If they cannot do it, they cannot do it. WHY you need it doesn’t make a difference. Honestly, it’s not a difficult concept.

Steve Wright, your question has been answered quite a few times throughout this thread.

78

You state this as though it is a law of nature, rather than a choice of management. If they choose to be unable to handle these requests, why shouldn’t customers be disappointed with that choice?

79

Errr … not that I can see … which is sort of why I asked it.

Let me see if I can make my phrasing crystal clear: why (if you know that a group of twenty wanting separate checks is coming in) is that any harder to deal with than twenty individual, separate, customers? I mean, I guess the group will all want to sit together, but why would that affect the complexity of the bill itself?

80

thanks, Cheesesteak. lez managed to completely ignore my comments that I’m not arguing that her personal place of business cannot/willnot accomodate that, but that the presumption that the request itself is unreasonable and won’t ever be accomodated anywhere is where we cross lines.

The request (when done in a timely manner) is a reasonable one, if any specific restaurant chooses to not honor such a request, then should be prepared to loose a certain amount of business. If this is acceptable to them, more power to you. But to question the customer about ‘why’ they need what they say they do is presumptios and bad business, on a general level.