In which I Pit the poor (overreacting)!!!!

The BBQ Pit
41

So now your rebuttal is to imply that I’m lying? With no proof, evidence, or even precedent?

Who said anything about random totals? Write the tickets down, and enter them when the meal is done. I don’t see the problem. I have not seen servers using PDAs at my table for some time, they write down what is ordered, and total it at the end.

Sometimes, they write it down and then type it in to the terminal. Why, at that point, they can’t type it in as a separate order, just exactly like 20 people had come in on their own accord and sat down, is beyond me.

Where did I imply that servers in general were lazy? Did I not say that I felt that being a server was a demanding job? Did I not list reasons why?

Oh yes, what you said above - “Please”.

Is it possible for you to actually respond to what I write, rather than make up things to get upset over? Is it possible for you to actually try to see it from my point of view, and just think how it might be problematic and troublesome and even embarassing at times, when you are out trying to win the hearts and minds of clients, and everyone is having a good time, and everyone’s happy, biiiiig smiles - and then, after a 15-minute debate over the bill, suddenly pepple aren’t smiling any more? And things aren’t so happy? Is having unhappy customers really worth having a single bill?

So now I’m at fault because I don’t always pay for the meals? Because half the time or so I just organize and coordinate the events and meals? Jesus Chirst, I can’t win, can I? Regardless of whether or not the situation warrants it? So, I’m guilty for having too much entertainment budget in one post, and guilty for having too little in the next one. Please stop the “die yuppie scum” tone with the expense account, it doesn’t serve your argument.

42

while you were so busy explaining how you know about the restaurant’s policies etc 'cause you’ve worked there, allow me to point out that you most likely then, haven’t scads of experience working in places with expense accounts, therefore your comments here are arrogant and snarky w/o cause.

Different companies have different policies re: expense accounts. IME, it’s pretty damn standard for the ones I’ve worked with that absolutely no alcohol appear on a bill. In some cases, only one person’s meal may be reimbursed etc. Just as you are pointing out that we may not ‘know’ everything about each restaurant’s policies, it’s also pretty fucking clear that you don’t ‘know’ much about how expense accounts may work in different situations (since you don’t seem to allow for any differences).

re: OP.

What I heard from the OP was a disdain for this particular person wrt their actions when she personally was expected to chip in for her portion of the bill vs. her actions when her b/f was chipping in on her behalf.

I understand why it’s more work for a restaurant/server to split checks and accept that in some places they may not be able to do it for whatever reasons.

so, how about this: if you wish to split your checks, go places that allow you to do so. If your restaurant wants to include the most number of customers, be prepared to accomodate requests such as splitting checks. Neither stance is the only ‘right’ way. it’s a matter of preference. as to situations as described in the OP, I’d personally make it a big deal the next time she’s a loner, to state “split out her check, please”. I agree she was being a pin head.

43

I have to side with lezlers here, at least partially. Some restaurants’ computer systems are simply not set up to allow things like that, especially if you’ve got the nerve to ask for separate checks at the end of the meal. Some restaurants also just have a policy like that, because separate checks for very large parties IS a very time-consuming process. You may not like that answer, but it’s simple fact. There’s alot of extra work involved in separate checks for large parties, all of which entails your server to be off the floor for however long it takes.

That being said, if you’re really going to a fine dining restaurant where dinner is 100+ a head, I can’t imagine that you wouldn’t be able to arrange matters if you call the restaurant beforehand and make reservations, specifying your special needs, or at least make sure the waitperson or maitre’d/captain knows beforehand.

BEFOREHAND, is the key here. If you told me at the END of a meal that you need separate checks for 20+ people, and I’m supposed to remember what everyone was drinking, and who gets the wine, who gets the apps, etc, I’d tell you politely I’ll have to talk to my manager, go into the kitchen and lose my fucking shit.

If you’ve got multiple waiters handling the party, this especially applies. If 2-3 people are serving drinks, how in the fuck am I supposed to know who drank what, especially if multiple people are drinking the same thing or if people had different things to drink during the meal (say, a beer before dinner, wine with dinner, and aperitifs after)? If only one person orders Cosmos, that’s easy to figure out who the Cosmos get charged to, but if 4 people drank rum and coke, and 17 rum and cokes were served by 2-3 different people, I have no idea who is to get charged for what. Meals/apps is easy to figure out, because you have a record, in order to serve in the correct order without having to ask everyone what it was they ordered, but drinks/wine is another matter, epsecially since alot of people change drinks during dinner.

The fine dining restaurant I worked at, that would require getting a manager to void EVERYTHING out of the computer, re-ringing everything separately on a separate ticket, everything of which is in a different part of the system (drinks in one section, apps in another, entress in another, champagne/wine in another), running back to the kitchen to tell the chef to NOT cook those 20+ orders he just got blasted with, run to the bartender and tell him to not make all those drinks, get 20 separate check covers and run 20 different credit cards. I can tell you from experience that that can conceivably pull me off the floor for 20-30 minutes, if not longer. It’s not a matter of pulling out a calculator, you HAVE to have everything entered into the system correctly, or the entire restaurant’s inventory and ordering will be fucked up.

If I know beforehand, it can be handled thru the computer system differently to accomodate you, but omfg, you’ve got to have incredible balls, never worked in the restaurant industry or just be a complete fucking moron to ask for separate checks at the END of the meal. It’s not all written down on a pad and punched into a register at the end anymore, it’s a complex restaurant computer system that is directly linked to inventory.

It’s alot easier to assign every seat at the party a number, enter in everything in for each check separately, make a notation on each check that coincides with their assigned seat number, make sure all servers/waitstaff helping me know what the program is, and staple them all together so nothing gets lost. It’s still an enormous fucking time-consuming pain in the ass, but easier.

Please, please, please, for the love of god, and for the sanity of all your future servers, please don’t ever ask for separate checks at the end of the meal. You MUST let a waitress know beforehand, it’ll make it easier on everyone. The waitress, the waitress who has to cover my station AND hers while I’m off the floor dealing with your checks, the kitchen, the management, and most importantly, the customer.

44

I agree you have to ask at the beginning of the meal for separate cheques.

Obviously, the earth isn’t going to open up and swallow you if you don’t, but it makes life easier for everyone involved.

45

in the case of Una vs. lez - I didn’t see **either ** of them commenting on when the seperate checks were requested, lez seemed to be of the position that it simply couldn’t be done in some of the places she was at, not that it was easier at the beginning of the meal vs. end. I saw nothing in Una’s postings that indicated anything about when the request was made (actually, it seemed to me from what she posted about ‘when you’re writing/taking the order’ it would at least imply that the request was made at the beginning)

46

I’m with lezlers here. Regardless of whether a restaurant’s computer is able to split the check 20 ways or not, usually it’s the PHYSICAL ramifications that cause the restaurant to refuse to do it.

That’s 20 separate little computerized tickets spewing up out of the ticket device in the kitchen, added to the dozens of other tables in the restaurant.

Do sit down restaurants now have computerized screens with the orders on them? If so, the monitors must be huge to accomodate table after table of orders and get them all out at the same time.

It has been awhile since I worked as a waitress, but back then, the tickets still had to physically be placed on the little clip bar in front of the cooks.

I’ve worked in restaurants where they did allow people to split checks however many ways they wanted. It’s a huge hassle, and the table almost never ends up getting their food all at the same time.

The one restaurant I worked in that allowed this, soon stopped, just because of how much MORE time it took to do this. The physical placing the order in one at a time, opening a new order etc for the waitress.

Then in the kitchen, gather each ticket, making sure which other tickets it went with, and so on and so on.

Adds up to it taking a lot longer to work that particular table.

Regarding wring’s question/comment on when the check split is requested? If it’s going to be requested, in most restaurants I’ve worked in, it needs to be done at the beginning of the order.

Especially if it’s an establishment that uses computers.

Yeah, I made a comment about this earlier too. CHEAP not poor.

47

It’s easier, not easy. You’ve no idea how many tables I’ve served in my life where people don’t even hint they need separate checks till I’m dropping the check, prompting that whole little “excuse myself politely, go into the kitchen and lose my shit” bit.

And, still…as lezlers has said, the point remains some restaurants are simply not set up to enter separate checks for one table, or have a policy against it, due to the time consumption factor. Even with a 20-top, they still likely aren’t the only party in my section, every minute I’m off the floor is a minute a customer isn’t getting the attention they’re paying for (especially in fine dining, where what you’re really paying for is the service, not the food, in the inflated prices), and some restaurants simply aren’t set up to handle that. Even if the separate checks run smoothly, running 20 separate credit cards instead of one increases the time spent exponentially.

Like I said, your best bet is to call the restaurant beforehand, and tell them your special needs when you make the reservation. If they can’t accomodate your needs, you know already they can’t handle your business, and you don’t end up dragging 20+ people/clients/co-workers to different restaurants for one that is willing or able to accomodate you.

If it’s a reputable fine dining restaurant, in my experience, those places will bend over backwards to accomodate anything you want, short of wiping your ass for you if you need to use the restroom. Your local IHOP however, this will likely not apply.

48

my remarks re: when the seperate check request was made was simply pointing out that when Una was posting, it seemed to me that her posts indicated high probabilty the request was made at the begining (reference to the server submitting the order to the kitchen), whereas lez’s posts did not seem to care when the request was made.

wrt “easier” vs. “easy”: while I’m not supporting of the position that one should not care at all if one makes the servers’ task ‘easier’, I am, however supportive of the position that given that I’m purchasing goods/service, it’s really my needs that are paramount. If your restaurant cannot or will not provide the service/goods I desire/need, you will loose my patronage.

If my expense account will not pay for a check where alcohol is purchased, then your options are:

  1. allow me to have the wine submitted and paid for on a seperate tab

  2. refuse to do so and force me to either:

2 a not buy the wine (in which case you’re out the purchase +tip of the wine) or

2 b (or not 2 b) take my entire business elsewhere either for just this trip or forever (in which case you’re out all potential revenue from me/my company etc.)

(by the way, re the question about 'w/seperate checks who pays for the wine, before you bring it out, if you know there’s seperate checks and a bottle of wine is ordered, the server should ask “whose check shall I put this on?” I’ve never even heard of a case where a table ordering wine but insisting on seperate checks attempted to have the restaurant ‘prorate out’ the cost of the wine. And I’ll tell you, in advance, you’d have my unconditional support to tell them “no” if that should ever happen).

49

What I find amusing is the fact that apparently more than one restaurant has turned Una Persson’s billions of dollars away, because they have a policy against separate checks.

And she apparently thinks they’re doing it just to piss her off. That they don’t have any real reason for it.

Wow.

That’s a lot of arrogance on the part of a person who has no idea what it takes to run a restaurant.

Look, here’s the deal on separate checks, on a party of 20+ people:

a.) 20+ credit cards must be run. With an average time of 30 seconds to 1 minute per card to run it, that adds up to at least 10 minutes’ worth of time. Just to RUN the cards; this doesn’t include sorting them out, figuring out which tab goes with which card, etc.

b.) If some people are paying cash, chances are excellent they’ll want change. Which also takes about 30 seconds to 1 minute to figure out and sort for each tab, and that’s IF the server has that much change, and doesn’t have to run to the bar or the manager to get more change.

When I worked at restaurants that allowed separate checks, the average time for me to close out that many checks was at least 15 minutes.

And that’s fifteen minutes that all the other customers in my section are wondering where the hell I am, b/c I’m stuck at the computer, running all those damn credit cards and figuring out all that change. That’s also a quarter of an hour that the computer I’m working on is not available to other servers, which slows everybody else down, too.

Chances are also good that the party of 20+ people is pretty irritated as well by now, because they want to leave. (People with separate checks seem to think they should be able to leave just as quickly as somebody with one check. Do the math, for God’s sake!)

Now, 15 minutes may not seem like a lot of time, but just ask yourself how pissed off you’d be if your glass of tea had been empty that whole time, and you haven’t even SEEN your waiter. What if your steak was wrong? What if you needed more bread? What if you wanted another drink from the bar? What if you…I dunno…NEEDED YOUR WAITER? Most people do in that amount of time!

That’s why restaurants who pride themselves on their service to each and every customer refuse to compromise that service for the convenience of one freakin’ table. No one table deserves that much of their waiter’s or (waiters’) time; it isn’t fair to all their other tables who are paying just as much money for their dining experience.

And if that doesn’t make any sense to you…if you think that your money’s worth more than everybody else’s…then I guess it’s just as well that business owners are still allowed to run their business the way they see fit, in spite of you.

50

Yup. If you’re showing up unannounced with a party of 20+ people, you shouldn’t be surprised at being turned away. Unless a restaurant is specifically set up for banquets (huge groups), that restaurant is going to have a very difficult time accomodating you. Most of the restaurants where I’ve cooked over the years are set up for groups of 2-8 people. This is easy to distinguish by looking at the way the tables are set up in a restaurant. If the biggest table in the place seats six people, then groups larger than six are going to create difficulties.

For one thing, the size and organization of the kitchen is usually proportional to the seating arrangements. This is where that “ripple effect” comes in, of which lezlers speaks (and which others are ignoring). In other words, if the largest table in the place seats six people, the kitchen is probably set up to handle orders for six people.

I blame Hollywood for giving the general public a false impression of restaurants. I’ve seen any number of restaurant scenes where people are eating in a cozy little restauant, and for some reason they need to “escape” in a hurry. So they run through the kitchen, and we see that this cozy little hole-in-the-wall cafe has a monstrous hotel-sized kitchen with half a dozen chefs running around. Well sorry folks, it doesn’t work that way. More likely, that little cafe has one lonely cook, maybe two, working in very cramped quarters.

And so when a group of 20 shows up, it is more than the kitchen can handle all at once. Several years ago, I cooked in a very popular steak house that seated about 150. Tables seated anywhere from 2-10 people. In the normal course of operations, even in the busiest times, the kitchen ran smoothly - completed orders would go out the window as new orders would come in. I could have up to about six tables worth of orders in progress at the same time, all in varying stages of completeness. That worked very well. It was smooth and steady, and nobody had to wait long for their meals.

Enter a local small company that decides they want to hold their annual Christmas party at our place. They actually made reservations (yay!) for 6:00 PM on a Friday. That was good, as our busiest rush usually started at about 7:00. But that’s where the problem started. These people naturally didn’t want to eat right away. They sat around drinking for an hour first. Then, when the rest of the restaurant started filling up, they finally decided they were ready to eat. And so this group of 35 people gets their order into the kitchen. 35 porterhouse steaks, with french fries and salads. And that’s where the problem started. Our grill was only big enough to hold ten or twelve porterhouses at a time. Our small fryer could hold only 6 orders of fries at a time (and then figure in heat-recovery time between batches of fries). End result? The order took nearly an hour to prepare. Now, the people in this group didn’t mind - they were in no hurry. The other 100+ customers in the restaurant, however, did mind. My boss had never heard so many complaints! Several smaller groups walked out - they had other places to be (movies, etc). A lot of the people who did stick around ended up waiting 90 minutes or more for food they normally got in 15-20 minutes. And then there’s the fact that with two waitresses tied up waiting on this group, the other customers suffered with inadequate service.

In other words, the ill-will generated in the majority of the customers far outweighed the $500 or so dollars the restaurant made off the large party. Not only that - the large group tied up those tables for almost four hours. In normal circumstances, we would have turned those tables over two or three times in that span, making even more money than we earned from the group.

So what did the boss do? When this same group called for reservations the next year, he told them we could only do it if they would be willing to come early in the week, when we weren’t so busy. They didn’t go for that, and that was fine with the boss. A group of 30-40 simply isn’t spending as much money as the other 100 customers in the establishment.

51

Thanks for the comments, Audrey. Apparently, you didn’t really understand anything of the many posts I made in here, nor do you seem to have the ability to put yourself in my situation, depsite my many elaborations on what that situation was. And since there is no understanding of the situation, your sarcasm is thus off-target and wasted. That is unfortunate on at least two levels that I can see.

lezlers, neither of us is going to convince the other of the merits of their position. I respectfully disagree with your position and feel that my complaint is justified, but at the same time I understand that you do not agree with me for your stated reasons, and do not feel my complaint is justified.

I don’t want to argue about it any more. I apologize to you, lezlers, for raising my online voice, as it was not necessary for stating my position.

wring, you don’t understand. It does not matter to my company if wine or any alcohol is purchased, they still need to see an itemized, individual bill to verify that the amount I am reimbursed does not include alcohol, OR if it does, how much. It does not matter if I have a salad and water, on Jan 1 I’m not getting paid for it unless I have an itemized bill (so long as it is over $25. Under $25, they don’t care.) And this year, although they have paid them, they have harassed and warned and sent angry mails to me telling me how evil I am for not doing it.

52

So Phase, a group phoned your restaraunt, in advance, and made reservations for a group of 35.

In response, your manager:

a) took the reservation
b) had no extra wait staff on
c) had no extra kitchen staff on
d) made no stipulation to the party about what they could and could not order
e) made no concessions whatsoever that a large party requires more mork

and the result was the night went shitty, and somehow THIS IS THE CUSTOMERS FALULT?!?! for having made the reservations?

Well, that makes perfect sense. Or not.

If a restaraunt can’t or won’t accomodate large groups, any manager that accepts reservations from them is a moron.

As to the seperate cheque thing, I have to confess that the restaraunts that I’ve worked at that take seperate cheques (all of them, in fact) are also larger establishments that have additional staff on - staff that can be designated to complete the closeout on the tabs for large groups.

Additionally, should a server get a table of 20 (or something) generally that person is able to comandeer one of these extra staff for the duration of the vist. (By extra staff I mean a hostess or bus boy.)

53

Thanks for jumping in on my absence Canvas, Audrey, Cerri and Phase. You guys managed to word what I was trying to get across much more eloquent than I.

Una, thanks for the kind words, we’ll have to agree to disagree with this.

Wring, I don’t know what your problem is and I don’t really care. I was asking about expense accounts since I had no idea how the hell the restrictions on an expense account became the server or restaurants problem.

And Alice, see my last post to you. I mentioned in almost all my prior posts that some restuarants can accomodate, others can’t and all I wanted was for Una to be able to wrap her mind around that fact and to not insist that everyone can, some just wont. I always worked in smaller restaurants, you’ve worked in larger ones. It would make sense that yours would do it and mine would not. So you saying that the ones you worked in could does nothing to invalidate my or other’s positions.

54

Lezlers, if you say your restaraunts can’t, then I have to take your word for it.

I guess I sort of wonder why a big group would choose a teeny-tiny restaraunt in the first place; however, thats really neither here nor there.

55

Because the restaurant has a good reputation? My restaurants weren’t tiny tiny, they could accomidate anywhere between 75-120 people or so. We’d get 20 tops in our restaurants all the time, we just wouldn’t allow them to get 20 seperate checks. If they wanted, we’d put the alchohol on a seperate tab, but anything more than that and they could find someplace else that could accomidate them better.

56

I see the problem here. lezlers is awaiting a Megamelt Slam with CanvasShoes, Audrey, Cerri and Phase. alice_in_wonderland is late for their brunch.

Meanwhile, Una is greeting her party at the Ebbitt, where they do hand out separate checks – at a whim – and they do accommodate odd parties, even at short notice. It’s called Dining, something apparently few Dopers have properly experienced. And it’s not exclusive to DC or a large expense account. I’ve had exceptional treatment from as far north as Northport, all the way down to Key West, in many of the similar and seemingly onerous circumstances.

The SQUiRREL could give our hamsters a lesson in sedulousness.

57

??? Sorry, I didn’t wait tables at any sort of IHOP type place, mine were generally nicer restaurants. One chinese restaurant of the fancy type (no deliveries, etc) and one high end seafood place with heavy tourist activity (our second or third highest source of state income, can’t remember which).

Also a restaurant that chooses to set a limit as to how many ways it will split checks is not necessarily being non-industrious nor willing to do the most they can for their clients.

As another poster pointed out, refusal to split a check a ridiculous number of ways, is, in many cases, actually the restaurant, working hard at meeting the needs of ALL of its clients, not just the one table that didn’t plan well.

58

ACK! second or third highest meaning the tourist activity, not the seafood restaurant.

59

CanvasShoes, were you answering me? If so, please re-read my post. Also, your second-to-last sentence was unintelligible.
If you want to castigate Una Persson for her inestimable ability to select appropriate dining, please head to the Pit and rage on. In that case, and as an aside, I’d love the subject to segue to French dining so I could blackjack her with some newest data on France’s response to the heat wave. :rolleyes:

Don’t hijack a wonderful rant against cheapskates. It’s just not very nice.
Happy Scrappy, you might have to bump, but I’d dig an update after your next group meal. BTW: you’re really quite lucky, you know?

60

You know what? Fuck you. I specifically fucking said fine dining establishments are another creature altogether.

I’m well acquainted with how fine dining establishments work, since I WORKED IN ONE for almost 3 years. I worked at Nick’s Fishmarket, one of the top high-volume fine dining seafood establishments in the Chicagoland area. Average dinner for 2 people was about 150 bucks with any halfway decent wine. My manager would give me “the eye” if a fucking WATERGLASS was half full.

I know very fucking well how far fine dining establishments will go to please their customers. I once had a table with a couple who came in regularly, and the lady decided for dessert she really wanted something with a brownie in it. We didn’t have any brownies. My manager sent a busboy to the grocery store to buy one, we heated it, topped it with ice cream and presented on a plate beautifully drizzled with berry sauce. The lady was ecstatic, it was exactly what she wanted. That’s the lengths my restaurant would go to for customers.

It STILL doesn’t change the fact that it’s easier on everyone if it’s specified at the beginning of the meal you need separate checks, it doesn’t change the fact that SOME restaurants do not feel that the extra effort is worth it, or that SOME restaurants’ computer systems are simply not set up to handle such a request.

Which if you’ll actually go back and READ my fucking posts, you’d see that’s exactly what I said.

I was not abusive, nor critical of ANYONE in my posts, merely trying to explain what might be happening on the other side of the equation, and I really don’t appreciate your snotty fucking attitude and implying that I work at a fucking Denny’s.

Go to hell.