In which Stoid (The Prosecutor) Cross-examines Bricker (George Zimmerman)

[brazil84]

@Stoid

The only one obsessing over race is you: I’ve barely gotten started, and I have barely mentioned it.

It’s obvious why you kept asking Bricker why he found Martin suspicious. And then when you didn’t get the answer you wanted, you started asking about “a 20-something Asian man” and “a mid-30’s white man in a suit and tie”

I’ve written a lot on the subject and almost nothing about the race issue, except to say that I don’t think it’s all that important, and in fact it isn’t:

Nonsense, here is an exchange from the last thread:

@Randrover

We all know that this story wouldn’t be much of a story, and you personally wouldn’t care so much about it, if both the shooter and victim were white.

@Stoid

I’ll stand right up with my middle-aged white woman self and say that if Trayvon had been white this never would have happened, so in that sense you’re absolutely right.

(my bolding)

And another exchange:

@Magiver

Your point was off the mark. If the situation was reversed, nothing would have changed. Your example was a drill down to a single factor of race and I responded to that.

@Stoid

??? Nothing would have been different? The cops would have said “Black adult shooting white teenager clearly felt threatened, no need to arrest him.” ??? You want us to believe that YOU believe that’s what would have happened if the races had been reversed?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I don’t believe it for a second. If you believe you believe that, then I think you are profoundly lacking in self-awareness and are stunningly successful at bullshitting yourself.

[Airbeck]

brazil84

I’ve answered your questions. I said I don’t know whether race factored into Zimmerman’s mindset when he profiled Martin. That is an answer. I’m sorry it isn’t the answer you want, and that would fit your preconceived notions about me, but that is my answer.

I also answered about the key part issue. I told you what I meant by that, and why you shouldn’t be obsessing over it.

Now stop making demands of me. You keep demanding I apologize and demanding that I answer you. Its really coming off quite hostile.

[brazil84]

@Airbeck

brazil84

I’ve answered your questions.

No you haven’t. It’s not that I don’t like your answers – it’s that you’ve evaded my questions.

Not only that, but you have misstated my position twice now, most recently by claiming that I was “assum[ing] everything” about the case.

I have no interest in this kind of discussion where someone doesn’t respond to my actual position but instead imagines or invents a position I never took and responds to that position instead. (Inevitably, the imagined position is both unreasonable and far more extreme than my actual position.)

This exchange is concluded.

[Ellen_Cherry]

@brazil84

This exchange is concluded.

That would probably be best.

[Shodan]

Here come da judge.

Regards,
Shodan

[Stoid]

@brazil84

And another exchange:

Are you trying to show that I think that Zimmerman profiled Martin because he was black? Have you noticed me denying that? The issue is how important I find that… And I don’t find it important.

Can you explain why you think that I would find race so important and yet deny that I find race is so important? What would be the reason for me to deny something that I found so important?

Can you also explain how you managed to find these remarks and yet completely failed to notice the much more pertinent remarks that I also made:

While I dont’ think there is the slightest question than Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin almost exclusively because he was a young black male, I don’t think Zimmerman is all that unusual there, nor do I think it means that Zimmerman is a raging race warrior. I think that a lot of people who honestly and sincerely understand that no one is automatically anything at all just because of their ethnicity and do not automatically and mindlessly dislike and distrust everyone of a certain race still may find themselves feeling a little more uncomfortable and a little more suspicious in the company of a 17 year old black boy in a hoodie than a 17 year old blonde boy in a hoodie. It’s very difficult to be truly immune to the effect of media, and we are all exposed to a lot more images of violent and criminal black boys than blonde boys. Doesn’t make it right, just saying it’s so.

But I don’t think it really explains the degree of bias in his favor. I think the bigger driver of that is what I’ll call gun-love.** I think an anonymous survey of what people think of Zimmerman, think of blacks, and think of guns would show a much higher correlation between passionate gun supporters and Zimmerman sympathizers than between racists and Zimmerman sympathizer**s.

Just a theory, and I can’t do that survey to prove it. But that’s more of what it looks like to me.

I’m interested in the nature of the bias, and I don’t think it’s as much about race as it is about guns. But we’ll never get the facts there…

Exactly as I said earlier; the support/ambiguity/benefit-of-the-doubt being shown towards Zimmerman is primarily motivated by people who are pro-gun,** not anti-black**.

Yup. As I said earlier,** I don’t think that Zimmerman is some skinhead out to murder blacks, and I don’t think the police are, either.** But I don’t think there’s zero racism involved, that would be silly. Plus there’s been some issues with these police about unequal treatment of blacks in the past.

As was pointed out on Chris Hayes’ show about the incident, the kind of racism that makes a cop not believe a black kid in this scenario has even been observed from blacks themselves. We’re all human, and we’re all bombarded with negative images of young black males.

Case in point: “coon” - no, he didn’t say that. If you think he did, you have bat-like ears, and embracing a conviction that he did is evidence that you are wedded to a story you want to be true, not the truth itself.

Yes, clearly I am obsessed with race and that’s what it’s all about for me.:rolleyes:

[brazil84]

@Stoid

Are you trying to show that I think that Zimmerman profiled Martin because he was black?

No, I was trying to show that your claim was false. Duh.

Can you explain why you think that I would find race so important and yet deny that I find race is so important?

Sure, of course I could explain it. But I think my explanation would be rather insulting to you, so I will pass.

[Hamlet]

We the jury find … zzzzz

[GrandWino]

@Hamlet

We the jury find … zzzzz

Don’t worry, 140+ posts in and she’s “just getting started.”

[Stoid]

@brazil84

Sure, of course I could explain it. But I think my explanation would be rather insulting to you, so I will pass.

:rolleyes:

[Stoid]

Where is my witness?? Has he fled?

[drdrizzy13]

Mr. Zimmerman is it true that you ate some of Trayvon’s skittles’ before the police arrived?

[CarnalK]

@Stoid

Where is my witness?? Has he fled?

He may have decided to give up on this thread as A) You didn’t ignore interruptions and B) You basically snuck a porn site into his browser history.

[What_the]

@Stoid

Where is my witness?? Has he fled?

He probably got sick of all of the buttinskis… you know, the ones you said you were going to ignore.

[Bricker]

@Stoid

Please refer to this map which is marked to match your testimonyand tell me if it is accurate or if there is anything you’d like to change:

Yes, a couple of things are not quite right. I saw him first when he was walking very slowly in front of, or actually at the side, of the clubhouse. So you should move points A and C north towards Retreat View. The other stuff looks about right, although it was dark and raining and I could be off a bit. All the building fronts look the same, and with the rain misting the windows it’s hard to be sure of exact locations.

[Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge]

I object to this thread on grounds of douchebaggery on all fronts.

[Drunky_Smurf]

@Stoid

Where is my witness?? Has he fled?

Geez, let the guy have a life outside of this website. :rolleyes:

[TriPolar]

@Drunky_Smurf

Geez, let the guy have a life outside of this website. :rolleyes:

reported

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge

I object to this thread on grounds of douchebaggery on all fronts.

You’re not quite so new here anymore, Living Well, so you should know by now that insults aren’t allowed in this forum directed to other posters. Please do not post like this again in this forum.

[Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge]

@Idle_Thoughts

You’re not quite so new here anymore, Living Well, so you should know by now that insults aren’t allowed in this forum directed to other posters. Please do not post like this again in this forum.

OK, sorry.