Inappropriate relationship

Not profoundly retarded, but mildly retarded would be an apt comparison – like if a 30 year old had the mental age of a 15 year old.

There are values other than “be in a marriage that survives,” you know? I mean, I could probably point out plenty of outright physically abusive marriages that are surviving. It says nothing about the well-being of the people involved.

What law are you talking about? I have always been talking over the age of consent.

Separate what two?

Using anedotal survival stories is poor evidence at best. Mary Kay Letourneau is stilled married to that 12 year old she banged. Their realtionship has “survived.” Is that evidence that it’s sometimes just fine for 35 year olds to bang 12 year olds?

I believe in cutting to the chase. The board has previously been graced by visits from apologists whose line of questioning was remarkably similar to yours, and who under the guise of “debate” were obviously primarily interested in rationalizing their own behavior and/or gathering material for their spank bank.

It’s possible you’re completely dispassionate on the topic, and today’s conversational dart just happened to land on “what’s wrong with old dudes banging young chicks?” even though you have no personal interest in the practice, but you’ll please forgive my skepticism.

Sorry Smiley, I can only give my opinion, based on anecdotal evidence that I have seen. And ultimately, I cannot tell you why society thinks any particular thing as a whole, beyond what I think, and imagine others to feel the same.

I coach girls soccer, and have for several years. The girls on my team right now are 16. Probably just the kind of girls you mean… old enough to consent, but not the age of majority. They are all bright, hard working, interesting to talk to, funny, blah blah blah…

I would be highly suspicious of any guy over the age of nineteen (I am excluding anyone who could conceivably be in high school at the same time) attempting to form a serious relationship with any of these girls.

I do not question my player’s ability to be an excellent companion to any lucky guy out there. I am not slamming teenagers, nor do I have a low opinion of them. I give them the credit they deserve in making the good choices they have, with regards to school and sports (highly competitive soccer league).

I absolutely question the intentions of any adult in this situation! Can’t get laid by someone your own age??? Where and why are you meeting high school-aged girls???

On the last team I coached, there was a 22yo guy sniffing around one of my players who was 14 at the time. I did the best I could, as a coach, to dissuade her from this relationship. It did NOT end well for my player. :mad:

That’s a pretty bad use of the word “retarded” and I’d suggest you need to use a different word or analogy. A 30 year old who was genuinely retarded, even mildly so, would not have a mental function that would be equivalent to an average teenager; the differences in brain function don’t really work that way.

You and I agree in general that 37-17 relationships are a pretty bad idea but your analogy is ill chosen. I know that brain development continues into one’s 20s but mental retardation, in the sense most people understand it (I realize the term has changed in usage over the years) is not the same thing as the delta between a normal 16-year-old brain and a normal 36-year old brain. It’s like confusing heart failure with renal failure. They’re both really bad for you but they’re not the same thing.

Of course it isn’t the same thing, that’s why it’s an analogy. Clearly there are relationships we shouldn’t have because of the inequalities therein. Clearly there is a continuum with things that are definitely not okay (me dating a profoundly retarded person or a six year old). There are also things that are just fine - my boyfriend is four years younger than I am. At some point, there’s a line. Teenagers are still on the wrong side of it.

Actually you didn’t. You said “Oh noes, won’t somebody think of the creepers?” in response to me saying your response was pure discrimination.

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Yes there has, and it’s been given several times.
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I think if you read all the posts there are many diffident responses. Simply because a number have been that it is about maturity does mean I need to accept it, especially since there is no real evidence to back it up.

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It’s spelled “discrimination,” and you are not being discriminated against, you are being given an answer to the question that you asked
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No doubt I am a bad speller. I didn’t say you were discriminating against me. I was saying your responses are primarily discriminatory.

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“Inferior,” is not the word, but it is a physiological, biological fact that a person’s brain is not fully developed until they are in their early 20’s.
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I agree the brain is still developing. That being said I still numerous young people more mature than many people 2 or 3 times their age.

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No you haven’t. You have not met people who have completely devoloped brains at 15.
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If you wish to nit pick that is your choice, but I never said anything about developed brains.

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You are ignorant of the chronology of brain development. You have not met teenagers who have completely developed brains. It doesn’t happen. The fact that some adults lack full devlopment or maturity does not alter the fact that ALL teenagers lack it.
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I never said a word about developed brains and I am not ignorant of it. I said and still stand by what I said “I have met a lot of people in my life and I have met all combinations of originative and emotional level in almost every age.”

Not even mildly retarded. Vastly different.

I didn’t suggest they were comparable to that. I am saying that people in general are at various level of maturity and although that generally increases as they age it is not equal across people.

That being said I really don’t think that is the reason find it creepy. I don’t think that what jumps to mind when people hear about this they think "Oh my god, the disparity of maturity is so creepy. I think that is the excuse they come up with because it is more basic than that. I really think it is very similar to how people used to feel about interracial marriages or same sex marriage. It is simply not “normal” and so it is creepy.

Not at all, but that was not an example used. The thing is numerous people are claiming it is based on experience and yet no data is given.

I am thinking the experience is simply is that is generally does not happen in their direct experience and so they assume it must be bad.

No, it’s the understanding of emotional and cognitive disparities. You don’t like that answer, but that is the answer. This comparison of yours to irrational racism or homophobia has nothing to do with reality, and is not a coherent analogy anyway.Who are we supposed to think is unequal or inferior in that analogy.

Historically speaking, it IS the norm, by the way. It only been fairly recently that some cultures (by no means all) have started to move away from marrying off teenaged girls as soon as they hit puberty.

I believe in cutting to the chase as well, but I draw the line at being insulting. I am not rationalizing anything, I am seeking the reason, the core reason, people feel a relationship of this type is inappropriate.

And other people are seeking the reason, the core reason, you’re so interested in this question.

Romeo and Juliet laws. They’re laws that deal with the age difference between individuals rather than defining a black-and-white line that you can’t cross.

You’ve kept saying that you’re talking about “relationships”, not sex.

Simple. An older person seeking out a relationship with a much younger person is seen as predatory. Anything close or resembling an adult attempting to have sex with a child is seen as manipulation by the adult. It is sexual predation. Simple.

With regards to your assertion about inter-racial couples and homophobia… are you hoping in your heart of hearts, we will all come to the realization that it was simply wrong for us to hate on NAMBLA?* That love can truly exist between a man and a young boy? Don’t hold your breath.

The question is not the ability of the child to love or be in a relationship, but rather the intentions of the adult seeking that relationship.
*Nothwithstanding some truly lovable Marlon Brando look-alikes…

Actually that is your answer not “the” answer. It is also a few others.

I realize it was in many places the norm in the past.

The reason i don’t think that is the answer is that is (in my opinion) not something that would inspire the powerful negative emotions people have about this. That is why I think it is something deeper.

The reasons I compare it to homophobia and sexism is because those have in the past and still do with some people invoke similarly powerful negative emotions.

I have been thinking about it and I think it has more to do with being an alien thing. In the case of a adult-teen relationship I see it is more as well. I think we very rarely see these types of relationships, but we are undulated by sex offenders in the news. We obviously want to protect our kids and since is never happens in our experience it must be bad. If asked we will think about it and come up with a reason - maturity levels- but I think that is more of an excuse for us.

Then I suggest they create their on debate, but if you must know I want to know the answer. It certainly is not because I need to justify my behavior. If I had a need to justify everything I did that was not normal, I would have an awful lot of justification to do.

I know what Romeo and Juliet laws are. They deal with people under the age of consent whom have sex so that these people will not be subject to criminal prosecution. They are an attempt to avoid the full criminalization of sex under a certain age.

And they have not failed, you simply have chosen not to accept them.