And tanookie: that’s just horrible. I’m truly sorry 
Tis ok samarm… I’m actually pretty well adjusted for someone who suffered through what happened to me. It would certainly make one hell of an “ask the” thread. I really didn’t want to delve too far past the incest part of my experience as I honestly did not want to hijack the thread but it seems to have happened anyway.
damn! sorry 'bout that
samarm–incomplete, yes; inaccurate, no.
But I digress. The problem I had with your first post is that you sounded so pedantic rather than compassionate. To correct someone who’s just discussed a very personal, painful event because she didn’t use every available label, well, that struck me as pretty callous and seemed to miss the whole point, which was that some kinds of incest are in fact intrinsically evil. I still think you missed the bus with your response. Whatever.
on preview
oops. Sorry for continuing the hijack, but I wanted Samarm to know why I reacted negatively to his first post. Now he’s being all nice to Tanookie and my post is probably just taking us farther afield and not helping a bit. Sorry. Carry on.
If there’s something very wrong with incest, then that holds IMO only for incest within the core family. Relationships between cousins are sometimes and sometimes not considered incest. AKAIC: go ahead, have a nice day, if you love each other, than all’s good and well.
But siblings and parent/child, there appears to remain something wrong there, regardless of consent. Perhaps because of the hierarchy, the trust or the fact that you’ve grown up together. I don’t know for sure, but there seems to be a line there. Not?
Having luckily never experienced anything as horrible as this, I can only give my humble opinion. I don’t know that you can necessarily say its worse if you are raped by a trusted person, but in general I think it probably is.
Remember that some fathers have little or no relationship with their kids. Also, some abusers build up a trusting relationship with a child, and use it as a device to abuse them. They use the trust to try and make the child keep the abuse secret.
I really don’t think this should be debated here, though. If someone were to start another thread then I’d be happy to continue the discussion there.
Sorry if I initially came off as sounding offhand about tanookie’s experiences. I only wanted to clarify the difference between incest and father/child abuse. I think its important to keep the deinitions clear, otherwise the issue can become confused.
You are a survivor Tanookie… you have gone on to live a good and healthy life with a loving husband and kids… you are, in every way, a survivor.
I’d say that if a sexual relationship sprouted up between a parent/child or sibling pair after all involved reached adulthood there would still be some kind of problem. IMO the people involved were unable to break away from the nuclear family and could possibly just be replaying the old familial dynamics but now with sex involved.
Part of raising children, again IMO, is teaching them to grow up and leave the nest! Something has gone very wrong when sally grows up to displace mommy as daddy’s new wife.
Even with siblings… I just can not imagine being with any of my brothers ick Especially my little brother… I mean… I changed his diapers and took him to little league!
from dictionary.com
Thanks ratatoskK.
In order for incest to be a crime, it appears that there is no need for lack of consent. In order for it to be wrong, opinions could differ.
Now, how to take this to GD?
Goodbeem, I think a kindly mod would have to move the thread to GD… that’s usually how I see it happen.
I’ve read that the “icky” factor to sibling incest is clearly instinctual and not cultural-based. Children raised together will normally have no sexual attraction for each other.
For instance, in some cultures that have arranged marriages they tried to raise the girl in the boy’s family, thinking that would be the best way to teach her to be a good wife for the boy. The result was that when the kids grew up they didn’t want each other.
On the other hand, incestual relations between siblings is more common in siblings not raised together.
Sorry. No cite.
tanookie (and you spelled right :)), you’re right and I asked. Who wouldn’t want to be in GD?
Hmm Francis E Dec, Esq what precisely is instinctual about having no sexual attraction for each other when raised together?
To me, it would be more instinctual if I wouldn’t touch my “never seen, because removed-from-me-by-birth, but-still-gorgeous-and hyper-nymphomaniac twin sister” with a long stick. I can’t imagine that to be the case. Not sharing the same core-family background seems to me to be precisely the reason why there is not so much social pressure against cousins having a relationship.
Sorry to be so nitpicky, Goodbeem, but where in that dictionary definition does it mention “consent”? It reads to me that it is only a crime where the law forbids sexual relations or marriage between close relatives. That one little word, “consent”, can mean the difference between rape and sexual relations.
Dude! No! There’s no “think” - they’re first cousins! No! Sick!
I’m an intelligent adult, honest. really.
I would not fuck my sister. That’s as far as my opinion on incest goes.
quoting myself shamelessly:
In what way do we differ on this, samarm? I stated that in order for incest to be a crime, there is no need for lack of consent. To me, it seems, we agree on this. Or am I whooshed?
The “for it to be wrong” part was meant to addres what people find particularly icky about it. This is, arguably, not only because it is a crime.
These both sound dubious.
I’ve never seen any reference to an aversion to incest outside of humans.
Perhaps beter put: consent doesn’t come into the equation; incest with consent is just as much a crime as without it. At least, that’s how I would read the definition.
SimonX, the theory that incest avoidance is instinctual in humans is called the Westermarck Effect (http://www.humanevolution.net/a/incest.html).