Ok, fine. Ms. Patrick has demonstrated she’s got the skill and the desire to compete and compete well on a level playing field with men. In your book, what should she do? Stay out and not do something she apparently enjoys doing and does well because she has what appears to be the only factor which you think cannot be controlled for? Increase her weight to 150 or 200 lbs? I’m not sure if it’s possible to add that much more muscle mass without using steroids or something similar and, if she does it the way most of us do it, by adding fat :rueful glance in mirror:, she’ll be condemned for being too fat. Is she supposed to stay out of the sport because she’s too slim? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
Let me get this straight. A fellow who’s apparently none too successful and a bit of a whiner gripes that he’s, in effect, taking his ball and going home because a mere slip of a girl has an unfair advantage which apparently no mere human man can overcome. This spawns a four-page thread which has gone on for 4 or 5 days. Sheesh!!!
Danika Patrick has proven she has the skill, the desire, and the savvy needed to compete and compete well against others playing by the same rules. Isn’t that what sports, isn’t that what loving sports is all about? Ellis Dee, you’ve talked a lot about how her weight gives her an unfair advantage but, as far as I can tell (it is early and could be wrong), you haven’t acknowledged a situation in which a man would have an equal unfair advantage in a different sport. Indeed, you seem to have negated every one which has been presented. So, again I ask you, “What should Danika Patrick do?”
I thought this board was supposed to be full of smart people.
This is the single stupidest possible synopsis I could possible imagine. The four pages are people not grasping the facts:
There is a minor imbalance in IRL
That imbalance is corrected for in other racing organizations, like F1 & NASCAR
Therefore, that imbalance should be corrected in IRL
The uber-earnest defenders of Danica need to understand that:
This does not constitute an attack on DP in any way
DP should not be expected to change or do anything
IRL should be the one to change
As the rules stand, Danica has done nothing wrong, nor is she worthy of blame in any way. IRL officials should level the playing field in their sport.
Yes. Yes it is. Amazing that this perfect insight is posted amidst all your idiocy.
Why do we need another sport’s imbalance? The exact same imbalance exists for the lighter men in IRL. It should be removed for them as well, and for the same exact reason.
As for other sports, I believe I already offered one. Aluminum bats in baseball, just for, let’s say, pitchers, would be an unfair equipment advantage in baseball. 130 pound men get a similar unfair equipment advantage in IRL.
We don’t have a 4 page thread about aluminum bats or the unfair advantage lighter weight men have, nor has someone complaining about the advantage lighter weight men have made the national news. Mind you I’m sure someone once lost a race he thought he should have one and blamed it on the other guy’s weighing less. There are always excuses for why one doesn’t win, and it’s easier for some to say they can’t win because it’s not fair rather than because they weren’t good enough on that particular day at that particular time.
OK, fine. Danica Patrick had an unfair advantage because she weighs less. A guy I fence with has an unfair advantage because he’s got unusually long arms. I’ve got an unfair advantage at work because I’m told I have a slight, charming English accent, at least if you believe this week’s Dilbert. To me, the true competitors, the true sportsmen (and, of course women) will find a way to negate that advantage rather than whine about it. Why are we giving four pages of bandwidth to a whiner?
Do you get my point? (Picture that epee in hand, if you like;))
CJ
A very large part of racing is about turning. As in maintaining precise control on a steering wheel in a turn. While under lateral acceleration of… IRL? Maybe up to two lateral gravities. The longer she can hold and the more endurance she has, the faster she can go in a turn. That’s where endurance and upper body muscle counts. And it’s a really big factor.
I like looking at pictures of partially clothed women as much as anyone, but I really wish she hadn’t done those slutty pix for FHM. They hurt her reputation, IMO.
Mr Blue Sky*
I believe she was doing modeling work before hitting it big in the IRL.*
Well there’s a profession where being small (she’s 5’ 1") does not give you an unfair advantage. Actually, it’s a pretty big disadvantage. Aren’t most models rather tall?
Yes, actually, that’s exactly what we have. My argument has nothing to do with women. Nothing. It is purely based on weight, and it applies equally to the smaller men. In fact, I would say that Danica is completely irrelevant to my position. Since I rarely, if ever, referred to “women drivers” in this thread, but instead used the terms “lighter drivers” and “100 pound drivers”, go back and mentally substitute “130 pound drivers” instead of 100 in every one of my posts, and I stand by them equally.
The fact that many are unable to grasp this, and instead mount a knee-jerk pro-women defensive posture, is what has lead to the four pages.
I did finally come up with a body-type disadvantage for men that I’m in favor of. Long distance swimming. Any men that complain should go fuck themselves. I’ll leave it as an exercise for the reader to glean why, based on my posts.
I don’t understand how. It’s not like the more attractive male stars have never done modeling. Derek Jeter certainly hasn’t lost any respect on the field.
See, now that’s where you lose me. WHO SAYS? There are races, you know, that allow limited amounts of change to the vehicles so that the race is not just a test of driver skill, but of engineering. Why can’t Indy say, “We don’t know if the weight advantage for women is overcome by the strength disadvantage, but we don’t care. This race will accept women and men on equal terms, and will not require driver weight to be factored into vehicle weight.” That’s pretty much their decision to make, isn’t it? If it brings in a bigger audience, then the Indy owners are doing their job.
As others have pointed out, weight imbalances in Indy have been a reality for a long time, and it’s never been an issue. If an extra 50 lbs over the field was that advantageous, car teams would be building cars for midgets. If driver weight even gives women a tiny handicap, well, that’s about the fairest way to handicap a sport that I can think of - the natural consequences of physical differences. Fine. Usually the women wind up on the short end of that deal, so why in the hell shouldn’t they get a chance to use their natural advantages over men? Aside from their eery ability to get us to buy them food and drink, that is.
Seriously, it doesn’t matter whether or not his beef is legitimate; blurting out this spewage the day before the freaking race was the most rock-stupid thing imaginable, and he deserves whatever he gets. Sheesh.
I agree that the coverage of Danica Patrick was overkill, but I’m willing to forgive this one instance. Everyone knows that the Indy 500 just isn’t as important as it once was; with Patrick’s story, at least we have a reason to care. All things considered, she had a phenomenal run, more so given her relative inexperience. I think staying out of the pits was a mistake (she already had a lap led; with fuel, she could’ve at least made a fight of it), but of course it’s easy for me to say that.
As for Indy Princess, or IRL Princess…not exactly a lot of competition for that, is there?
Anyway. Of course light weight is an advantage. If the racing league wants to eliminate this advantage, it can. The IRL does not. Just deal.
Okay, I’m thoroughly confused, and not able to really grasp what you guys are saying. Humor me a bit, and play the role of IRL rules committee. I write you a letter asking the following question:
Since you don’t weigh the drivers in the car, I’m suffering a weight penalty compared to the 150 pound male drivers, as I weight 190 pounds. Since other racing sports weigh the car and driver together, this is clearly not an unreasonable measure to take to ensure competitive balance. What is your justification for not adopting this?
It is unclear how much the weight differential disadvantage of some drivers compares to the advantage that they get from having that extra mass be muscle, thereby increasing their stamina over the duration of the race and giving them higher burst power to turn the wheel for emergency maneuvers.
It is unclear that equalizing the mass of two cars weighed with their drivers by adding weights to the lighter car will make the two cars have the exact same maximum acceleration and deceleration when driven by those two drivers.
In fact, for the second point I’d say that it is firmly clear that it is not true that adding dead weight or even adding some magic weight that adjusts its position by the centrifugal (yes, centrifugal, not centripetal – the weight is not in an inertial reference frame) force acting on it will create a disadvantage for the lighter driver. Even slight variations of the road surface during a turn will necessitate a slight adjustment in the car’s moment of inertia. I.e., the driver will need to adjust their position during the turn. Not only can the heavier driver better perform those microadjustments, but once the heavier driver learns the course he can even start those compensations before the car even hits those spots.
Therefore, equalizing the weight of the two cars by the difference in the weight of the drivers would probably create a disadvantage for lighter drivers.
