Maybe, but I think a lot of people (who know little or nothing about racing, of course) could look at the pictures and think 1) she got the job just because of her looks, or b) she’s a slut.
Double standard. A good looking guy who poses for sexy pix is perceived as a he-man. A good looking woman who does it is a slut.
To be perfectly clear, I’m not saying that I feel this way, only that a lot of people do, unfortunately.
And I don’t think Danica has done any modeling that was unconnected to her driving career. Before IRL she was in the Toyota Atlantic series, and in carts before that.
Really? You get to drive 227 MPH on a crowded track because of your looks? Is there any way we can get Paris Hilton in on this deal?
Is there any rational person on the planet who thinks that anyone is going to be allowed to strap in to an Indy car and race the 500 because they are pretty?
As for the ‘slut’ comment, people who think like that are just pathetic.
Sports stars are attractive. They pose all the time - men and women. Joe Namath appeared in the center spread of Playgirl. I think it’s a huge double standard to say women that do it are slutty and got where they were on their looks, but the men didn’t.
Why? In basketball there are strict rules about the height of the basket and yet the height of a player isn’t an important component to include.
This would never have become in issue if Danica didn’t have a vagina. She has an advantage, but I’m still unconvinced that it is in any way unfair. And no, even Wheldon’s opinion won’t change my mind.
Dude, I hate to break it to you, but the fact that drivers are doing weight training is pretty good evidence that strength is an advantage.
Not really. No one has argued that her weight isn’t an advantage.
This is one of the few sports where a woman’s physical attributes are an advantage…so of course people are now looking for ways to handicap them. Lovely.
There is a rule in IRL that deals very specifically with the weight of the vehicle. What is the purpose of this rule if not to make sure one car does not have a weight advantage over the rest?
In basketball (since it’s the analogy of the day) I am also reminded of the recently late George Mikan . When he came into the league, his astounding height prompted the NCAA to make a rule against goaltending. They didn’t restrict height, but his uniqueness suggested that a new rule would be necessary to ensure the continuing competitiveness of the league. Were all the other players crybabies because they didn’t want him camping out under the basket swatting away all their shots?
Danika is unique in that she has an unusual weight advantage over the rest of the field. It is only reasonable to suggest a rule that levels the field, even if it was considered unnecessary before.
A cite about what? That for two people of the same physical fitness, the one with the larger body size has a strength advantage? That a driver enduring 2+ hours at 120[sup]o[/sup] (not including the insulating factor of the fire suit) spending half of the time enduring 2-3g sideways is easier for someone with more strength?
I have to thank Robot Arm for fighting some of my own ignorance about motorsports. I wasn’t aware that the competitors were strapped in so tight that they couldn’t move their torso, and he (she?) makes a good point that in adding weight to the car you can put the additional weight significantly lower than where the heavier driver can shift his/her body to. I question, though, whether it would be most advantageous to place the weight in the center of the car or to place it as far left as possible, since these races use oval tracks.
I believe you are wrong. Experience has shown that costs in motorsports can easily go out of control. I don’t know about Indy, but F1 and WRC have been plagued by high costs for decades.
The problem in WRC is so big that teams with a long history such as Ford and the PSA Group (Peugeot - Citroen) are considering to pull out.
An F1 crisis is expected to follow after the ban of tobacco advertisements gets enacted.
Yes, that would be what the rule is for. Says nothing about the weight of the driver though.
Possibly. Did they make the rule becauase he was too tall or too good? When Danica starts dominating the way Mikan (and Chamberlin) did, you might have an argument. But since she’s never even won a race, I’d say that the IRL is still pretty competitive.
You still have yet to show that this advantage is unfair. Or that it’s thrown the competitive balance out of whack.
You blithely dismiss the opinion of possibly the best driver in the business right now. (He’s won 4 of the 5 races so far this season.) And instead offer up uncited conjecture put forth by messageboard contributors as the real truth? Un-fucking-believeable. Oh wait, let me try using your debating tactics:
“So if Yookeroo say (sic) so, it must be true. :rolleyes:”
Gee, this tactic really makes for honest debate.
A cite about your assertion, you dumb fuck. I believe you used the words “certain” and “advantages”, and yet I’ve not read a single fucking word from any authority in the field to support this. The fact that you have no cites, coupled with the fact that I do, leads me to believe that your argument is completely devoid of merit.
Dude, I hate to break it to you, but you can’t read for shit. The quote was: “I’m not lifting as much weight as I used to”, clearly meaning that he used to build strength more, but had to cut back because the extra weight – even if it is in the form of strength – reduces his speed.
I’m guessing I haven’t heard rebuttals from the other critics because they realize that they have lost the debate. To those still arguing, I am awestruck by the tenacious need to cling to a clearly incorrect argument in the face of such obvious evidence refuting their position. Truly staggering.
If you think I’m being an obnoxious ass, I was much more reasonable three pages ago, but the nonstop hammering by posters who have been shown to be wrong, and who refuse to admit it, has left me no desire to respond reasonably to these unreasonable posts.
Agreed and agreed. The underlying sentiment seems to be that women can either be competent or attractive, but never both. This concept is unfortunate, and the irony is that Danica Patrick (along with others like the Williams sisters and Maria Sharapova) should be serving to debunk it, not reinforce it. It’s sad, really.
That’s just it, the rules aren’t the same for all drivers. The total weight minimum for a 100 pound driver is 1550, and the total minimum weight for a 200 pound driver is 1650. 1550 and 1650 are not the same numbers, thus it isn’t the same for all drivers.
Innate body-type advantages are fine and proper in sports where the bodies do the work. Auto racing is not such a sport.
But of course, you’re okay with drivers who are physically stronger having an advantage over weaker drivers. I think this is where most of us think you’re being rather arbitrary. Strength advantage = fine, weight advantage = not fine. Why the difference?
I’m not asking for a cite; I’m asking for a convincing argument. Haven’t got one yet.
I don’t give a fuck how many races he’s won. Has he made a compelling argument? Isn’t appeal to authority some sort of logical fallacy?
I have no idea what you’re babbling about here. What conjecture?
Cites for what? You’re making the claim that her advantage is unfair. Make your case.
Ummm…yeah. This is a straw man. Everyone agrees that less weight = faster speed. The point is that strength is also an advantage. If it wasn’t, they wouldn’t be doing any weight training. Just because they believe that trading strength for a lighter weight is a good trade doesn’t mean that strength doesn’t help. And notice that he hasn’t completely stopped his weight training.
What evidence? “Wheldon says so” & “Nascar does it” aren’t real convincing.
Yookeroo, the convincing argument is that they weigh cars because having a lighter car would be an unfair advantage. They need to extend that to the drivers as well, because the driver’s weight has the exact same effect as the car weight. Lighter=faster.
The only possible reason not to weigh the drivers would be if weight either didn’t effect the car’s performance, or if they didn’t care about having a level playing field. If you don’t weigh the drivers, you shouldn’t weigh the cars either. If you do weigh the cars, you should also weigh the drivers.
Appeal to authority of the drivers is only a fallacy if they disagree. I’ve cited several drivers that agree. I’ve yet to see a single driver disagree, nor has anyone cited such a disagreement. Until you do, it is not a logical fallacy to appeal to the authority of drivers.
What you guys are saying is that lighter drivers should get to drive faster cars. I have yet to see a compelling reason why this should be the case.
Therefore, the only reasonable conclusion is that you are wrong.
As I understand it Mikan was 6’10" in an era when the average player was much shorter. His height allowed him to use a technique that was 100% within the current rules, goaltending, that others were unable to use with anything approaching his effectiveness, entirely due to their lack of height. If he had been 6’2", he would never have been in a position to cause a rule change.
Rules in sport are updated all the time to account for changing conditions. Is Danica Patrick enough of a new condition of the sport to support a change in the rules? Certainly she’s not damaging the sport or dominating the way Mikan did, but you shouldn’t have to wait until a crisis to update your rules. A competitive issue has been identified, a simple solution is available, there should be no problem with seriously considering it.
The rules are the same. The weight minimum is based on the weight of the car, and doesn’t include the driver. It applies equally to all teams and all drivers. That’s the rule. Deal with it. It’s not unfair. This simply is not a debatable point; the IRL rules deal with car weight, and they apply equally to all drivers. You’re just gonna have to suck it up.
Now, you may not like the rule. It’s still fair, whether you like it or not. Some people don’t like the DH rule, but it’s fairly applied. Some people don’t like instant replay in football, but it’s fair.
If you want the rule changed, fine. If it’s changed and is still applied equally to all drivers then it will still be fair, albeit different.
Yes, the unfair rule is applied equally. That doesn’t make it fair, because it is fundamentally flawed to begin with.
Weighing cars is only meaningful if they are weighed “as raced”. IRL cars are not weighed as raced, and thus, IRL is not imposing fair weight restrictions.
