Infants Fly Free?

The BBQ Pit
121

Honey, you have never backed anyone into a corner in your life. Nor have you ever taken the high road, despite what you seem to think happened in the ‘loud motorcycle’ thread (seriously, that gave me a laugh - you launched into a bizarre attack completely unrelated to the thread and I refuse to rise to your bait, yet you think you’re the adult in that scenario?).

Anyways, be sure to enjoy your smug sense of superiority as you sit back and relish another thread well won by poor, downtrodden curlie. I am not going to argue against your crazy any more today.

122

I have a confession to make. I have children, lots of them. I hate to hear them crying, I also have a minimal tolerance for my, or anyone else’s, children running around like wild zoo animals. I can not accept it. When we are in public, and they begin any of these behaviors, as children are wont to do, I will do anything in my power to put a quick and final stop to it.

However, if there is, in my vicinity, a person who begins to act as if they are personally offended, terribly inconvenienced, and suffering a great injustice having to witness their transgressions, my response is likely to change. In these cases, I am inclined to let the behavior continue, nay, encouraged! Anyone who is acting more immature than a child can go shit in their hat and fuck right off. If you want to be an asshole, I am personally willing to treat you like one, cause I’m nice like that.

If however, you behave like a civilized human and have the courtesy and grace to accept that a problem must occur before it can be fixed, I am sure you will find that the situation will soon be taken care of to the very utmost of my ability. Which 99.9% of the time means the problem is eliminated quickly. For these people, I offer an apology for your distress, and a hearty thank you for your patience.

123

Obviously. I wasn’t trying to make a “point” here, I was merely surprised that an airline would allow anyone to sit in the aisle for three hours. I have no idea why you are making such a production out of a couple of questions.

Not raised many babies, huh? Yes, there are those few who cry for no reason for a long time, but generally a baby has a reason for crying and if the mother has half a brain, she knows that reason and does something to fix it. If for no other reason that she cares about her child. In airplanes, it has been my experience that the mother usually doesn’t know that her baby’s ears are hurting during take off and landing and/or she doesn’t know what to do about it. Which is really pathetic. Others just seem to expect that the baby is going to cry and do nothing about it.

Besides, that quote clearly meant that the mother wasn’t doing anything about the baby crying, not that she is all powerful to stop it every time. I’m glad I provided you with some humor tho.

Or maybe you can’t understand the printed word. The original situation wasn’t “standing around in the aisles”, it was squatting next to a seat for three hours. And I have heard on a very few occasions someone told they cannot stand/sit in the aisle so I did make the assumption that is was not allowed. Hence the original questions.

I doubt I am considered a regular air traveler nor do I know about the OP but then every one of us has their own particular things that really annoy us. Interesting that you assume that anyone with any brains must think like you. Odd how we can all agree that things like loud drunks, squealing teens are irritating and we shouldn’t have to put up with them, but we aren’t even allowed to complain about the noises and disruptions that children make.

Your lack of ability to understand others must make for a sad life.

124

You don’t say! You’re a fricking laugh riot.

Yes, BTW, I’ve raised a baby. You haven’t, as I recall, so this is an area in which I have experience and you do not. (Cue the part where you claim to have raised your siblings. Sorry, not the same thing.) Fact is, the crying can usually be kept to a minimum. Sometimes, though, they cry and it’s hard to get them to stop. The babies you hear crying are, for the most part, the ones that are hard to get to stop. Duhhhhhhh. You don’t notice the other ones, because they aren’t crying.

125

Having raised three - one of them quite colicky - myself, I’d be rather interested in hearing about your qualifications on the subject of which you apparently have a lot of opinion.

That was my line, not yours.

126

Accusations you should probably avoid making:

  1. poster x is ignorant of child raising
  2. poster x lacks empathy

As straight lines go, they’re just too easy.

127

I had the normal 5 hour flight yesterday, bu this time after already being on a shorter run and up since way too early to make things happen. Still getting over the time change, however back to the flight…

On board and in front the mother with her small child in her arms and a toddler in the seat beside. Although I do have sympathy, for the mother, I also have sympathy for myself. Especially as I couldn’t even have a beer to dull the pain as I had to pick up the cat after getting home (I won’t drive even after one).

My fears were totally unfounded. The children were a little bit noisy on take off and needed to go to the toot a few times but other than that they slept right through. It was as pleasant a 5 hour flight as I could imagine.

So while small children (and others) on a flight can be monsters it isn’t always so.

128

Really? Trying to get a baby quiet and happy is different if it isn’t one you yourself pushed out?

Try reading. I have already said there are babies that cannot be quieted because they are not feeling well or teething or whatever. What I have also said is those mothers who cannot be bothered to try to keep their baby happy and quiet or their older kids under control shouldn’t be allowed on a plane, then the usual circus in here about how haaaard it is to travel with a young child and of course all mothers should be allowed to travel with babies they don’t tend to, and mothers are saints and babies are the future and on and on. All because the OP dared to complain about a bad flight he had due to a loud (and apparently smelly baby) and I had the gall to agree.

I see. So it is just a coincidence that you always back out at a time when you cannot answer my posts? And your exaggerations and off topic attacks get worse and more frequent for no reason? Couldn’t be because you don’t have any cites to back up your lies or explanations for them either could it? There is no reason why your usual posting style is hit and run? Yeah, just pretend that those that don’t agree with you are crazy - that will make you feel better.

Exactly. As I’ve said earlier, there is rarely any excuse for small children to act like feral animals. Yes, it takes work and planning ahead to be able to take them on the road without torturing those around you, and few seem to want to do that any more. It shows in other areas as well; how bad they are doing in school, their manners, their lack of responsibility, etc. Just as it takes work and planning to be able to take a dog on a flight and have it be well behaved enough that few (and sometimes no) passengers are aware it’s there, so should mothers do that work and planning prior to taking their children. Apparently, few here agree with that, it seems that the popular view is that mothers can do whatever they want.

And, you all should notice - this is not the first, or second post in this thread where someone expected trouble and was pleasantly surprised it didn’t happen when they found themselves traveling next to a baby. Seems like that expectation of trouble must come from experience, eh?

129

What the hell are you talking about? Is it your thing to just make up stuff about the world that isn’t true just so you can rail against it?

130

I’m not going to look thru the whole thread, but you can start with post #9. It was actually kind of surprising that it took that long for the mommy apologists to show up. Anyway, that post is an example of the “just shut up and leave poor mommy alone” crowd. There are many more in this thread.

If that isn’t enough for you, search for the thread about the people changing baby diapers in restaurants in full view of other diners. Many posts there that saw nothing wrong with it. There are also threads about kids screaming in stores that contain posts from folks that think that poor mommy is so overworked that she shouldn’t have to keep her children under control. Somewhere in a mini-rants thread is a post from me about the pool parties across the street where the screaming went on until midnight, and the responses that indicated that I should just suck it up because the parents have the right to stand on the porch and drink while their kids disturb the neighborhood. And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

I realize that you won’t apologize for saying I make stuff up, but I do hope that you will hesitate and think before you do that to someone else.

131

When we’re still seeing non sequiturs such as flying with a baby is akin to changing a soiled nappy at a restaurant table, there’s no way you’re going to get anywhere in the Loebners this October.

132

Or from stereotypes based on hyperbole in movies, TV and message boards and confirmation bias.

133

I’m starting to actually feel a bit sorry for curlcoat. What must her early life have been like to engender such strong feelings towards children and parenthood? What sort of person is she that the sheer joy of watching a child at play, or a mum or dad looking adoringly at their offspring brings up a sense of disapproval, nay, disgust in her?

Sure, I get that some folk are just not into kids. Whatever floats your boat is fine by me. But curlcoat’s attitude is not one of mere disinterest: it’s a pathological hatred of all things kid.

This then extends into a sort-of victim mentality that kids/parents are to blame for all the discomfort, annoying shit and indeed financial woes she experiences in her own life. I get the impression that she believes that her life and the world in general would be truly better off without children in it. I think that’s sad.

Well, either that or she’s a fucken troll. Either way it must suck to be her.

134

I’m sorry you can’t understand/keep up with the posts in the thread. Perhaps if you study?

Oh, of course it couldn’t be because they had previously experience being on a flight where a child screamed or some other way caused a disturbance? Because of course babies never cry, toddlers never act up and mothers are always ready and willing to make sure their little darlings never bother society at large.

(RickJay are you noting this post?)

I would say “where do you get the idea that I think that” but I know - from what people make up here. FWIW, I don’t care at all about what kids are doing as long as they aren’t making a lot of long term noise (note those words “a lot” and “long term”). And children in general wouldn’t be any issue for me if the majority of folks out there not only expect me to pay way too much in taxes to support other peoples lifestyle choices (children) but they also expect I should be happy to do so. Or at least never dare to complain. I’m not even allowed to complain about bad parenting.

Again, not true. You all quit expecting me to put up with extreme brattiness and quit expecting me to help pay for the privilege, and I’ll quit expressing distaste for your decision to help overpopulate.

Again, not true. Just because you are sensitive to the subject doesn’t mean that such an exaggeration is true. For example, check out the motorcycle thread - I complained about loud pipes and cars with monster stereos there. OTOH, many of the worlds woes are due to people having children they cannot properly raise, so there is that.

My world would be better off without them - why would that be sad? And I do believe the world in general would be better off without so many children, which I also can’t understand why you would consider to be sad given how quickly our resources are being used up. Which isn’t an issue for me since it won’t happen before I die and I don’t have any kids to worry about the sort of world I’m leaving for them.

Nope, not a troll - there are many people who believe/feel as I do. If nothing else, we just didn’t end up with whatever hormones are needed to cause baby-mania. And no, it doesn’t suck to be me - honestly, people can be perfectly happy without having had any children. Shoot there are many people who had kids who wished they hadn’t!

Look, I don’t get how people can go thru life without having pets they love and enjoy spending time with, but I don’t go around saying that those who don’t are trolls, or bitter, or have a sad life, or any of the other things you all seem to want to assume. And I certainly don’t expect you all to pay for the choices I’ve made with the critters, hell I’d be happy if you’d quit trying to legislate us out of existence! I don’t shove my dogs and cat down your throat, why can’t you show me the same courtesy WRT your kids?

135

No, no, I want the last word!

136

Well, we’ve hit all the major points - kids suck, people with kids suck, people without kids are so oppressed, kids these days are evil, everything was better in the 60s, life is so unfair, dogs are better than everything else. Throw in a bonus of OMG taxation is so cruel and I’d say we’re about done. Although neither the bouncy castle or the Mexicans have made an appearance, so there might be more coming.

137

And there folks is the curlcoat-manifesto. Digest at your peril.

138

Quick story,

I once boarded a plane in Bangkok, headed Tokyo, Seattle, Toronto, with refueling stops that’s something over 18hrs of flight time. When boarding I noticed a set of Indian baby girl twins, still babes in arms, in care of two (non parents), they were being delivered for adoption, and another couple with toddler.

Those twins fussed and cried a considerable time, every take off, and often in between. Which often set off the other child, as the airline had cleverly seated them all together where there was floor space for them to play. I am certain that everyone on that plane, every time it stopped to refuel, hoped they’d reached their destination and would not be reboarding. But, no, there they were again. The babies were being rocked and soothed in every known fashion, but still they fussed and cried - a lot.

At one point, Mom of toddler had gone to the loo. Child began to wail before she had locked the door, for his Mama. As desperately as he tried, the father could not console the child. Of course, here comes the refreshment cart, now positioned between Mom and screaming child who can see, but not reach, Mom. Several hours into the flight, people are growing weary of it, to be sure.

The flight attendant, without hesitation, stopped beverage service, whipped the cart out of the way and let Mom through. For which she received a round of well deserved applause!

This kind of long plane travel is trying on everyone; us, them. The entire long journey I saw nothing but sympathy and understanding on the faces of the passengers I shared that plane with. No one was snarky or sneery, if they were being harshly judgmental they managed to conceal it. Knowing looks were exchanged, in a, "this is one for the books’ kind of thing.

And you know what? No one died. Everyone had the best screaming baby story for all time, to share. Everyone seemed to understand, the way adults sometimes can, if they try, that the people transporting these children were doing all they could, and we could hardly expect more.

Once in Toronto, after collecting our bags, we headed to the minibus ground transportation we would take to our city, two hours away. Imagine our surprise, when we got to the counter and there, in the waiting area were the twin girls and their handlers. Without anger, or bitterness, before purchasing our tickets I quietly asked the man if they would be in our minibus, were they going our way? (Tired as I was, I was prepared to wait till the next bus. I wasn’t mad, but I know my limits!) No they were headed to Erie!

It was a big plane, filled with people, who all some how survived. Without being rude, or hurtful to people who were struggling to do their best in difficult circumstances.

Now whenever I hear people whine on and on about such a trivial thing, I am reminded of that journey. I don’t think babies or parents have changed. I am inclined to think the mean spirited, small minded, whiners are over reproducing, however. But maybe that’s just me.

139

Lack of comprehension is also one of those speck/beam topics you should probably avoid, I’m afraid. Oh, and just in case it was coming, you should probably avoid accusing others of being joyless, dreary old fucks whose greatest gift to the species will be their passing. Just saying.

140

Sir, I find your ideas intriguing. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.:smiley:

Oh, goody. Another curlcoat show. I swear, she could be my mother.