I got nothing to say about the John in the OP, but I would just like to point out that I am a horny, bald, overweight, middle-aged(well, 41) white guy who regularly gets it on with a hot 20-something babe. Married her, in fact.
“…I’m telling everyone, Father.”
Hey, I told that joke on the first page!
Well, for the record, it’s not like I would be talking about this stuff if I were trying to impress a woman. I’m not an idiot. I don’t expect the thing-in-hole aspect to impress anyone; unless maybe I was talking to some postmodern feminist with a biology degree.
About the Jewish-girl porn - I wasn’t trying to say that I sexually desire girls who are dressed up in Jewish religious vestments or holding Torah scrolls or anything like that, just that I find girls who “look Jewish” (like Sarah Silverman, for instance) to be attractive (I find all female types to be attractive, more or less - I’m not saying one is better than the other, they’re just different.)
When I said Jewish I just meant it as an ethnicity. There’s no “Jewish porn” just like there’s no “Italian girl porn” or “Irish girl porn” or “Polish girl porn” or “Greek girl porn.” White ethnic groups don’t really have niches in porn. (Non-white groups do, such as black, hispanic and Asian.)
I am sure that there are Jewish women in the porn business, who have the classic dark “Jewish look.” Whether or not their being Jewish has anything to do with their porn persona, I don’t care.
Wrong kind of impressive. I was trying to point out that many women don’t find penetration, in and of itself, all that stimulating and therefore “sex=penetration” is not necessarily a particularly appealing categorization.
Okay, maybe I was being a little uncharitable with that definition. There are all kinds of ways to have sex, and yes, there is much more to it than just the penetration.
Aren’t you just imposing your own moral judgment on sex though JRBrown? For many people, sex is nothing more than a mostly physical act. Indeed, I think in many cases it can been seen as a service and should be regulated thusly. If it needs to be emotional and meaningful for then by all means go that way but other types of sex should not be pushed into the shadows or otherwise demonized.
Well, I respectfully disagree. I think the main event is pretty damn interesting too.
And except for the fact that it involves a person in a position of power explointing a person with very little, a person paying for a “service” that many purveyers (i.e., the prostitutes themselves) find demeaning and perhaps even dangerous, and which many of them would not provide given any sort of financially viable alternative.
I am singularly unpersuaded by stereotype of the happy hooker, which I think studies bear out is largely a fiction. I am especially unpersuaded by it in third world countries, where poverty, overcrowding, discrimination, and gender inequality make it highly unlikely that young girls would routinely and serially sleep with unattractive middle-aged foreign men because they just love it.
In fact the whole argument reminds me of this The Onion article: Asian Teen Has Sweaty Middle Aged Man Fetish.
Our mileage varies, because I do have a problem with prostitution generally; I think it’s a perennial tool for exploiting the less powerful in a way that is frequently not truly consensual (taking into account financial imperatives) and that in turn fosters other unhealthy behaviors, like the use of drugs and the sexual exploitation of children. There’s lots of things that have been around for a really long time and are not going anywhere; the Bible reminds us that the poor are ever with us, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight poverty.
And I’m completely comfortable casting judgment on the icky pathetic loser in the OP’er link. Gold star on becoming less of a sleazeball, but half a star taken back for lovingly dwelling on all the gorgeous girls you boned before you saw the light.
In all good faith, I am going to request 'em.
I visited Dongguan in 2007 as part of a university course and was shocked to find that our hotel was basically a brothel. The 3rd floor was full of Chinese girls in ballgowns and you could take your pick. It kind of explained why there where so many middle aged white and Japanese guys at this hotel.
I also went to Thailand straight afterwards with some friends, and I never partook of any girls, I don’t pay for sex, and I didn’t find most of the women attractive to be honest. I remembered seeing a place there with only Russian women there. I’ve seen ads in Indian newspapers for Russian girls, they seem to get around!
A good friend of mine is Thai-Indian with a Thai wife. His wife told me that the average wealthy Thai family wouldn’t let their daughters anywhere near foreign men. She told me that her father would make her come home at 9pm, so she could avoid them. I went out once in RCA in Bangkok, where the Thai kids hang out, there were very few non-Thais there.
I think many Asians are very liberal regarding prostitution. I work with two Chinese women and they find the fact that I never used prostitutes hilarious.
All this stuff is also true of a lot of low level service-industry jobs that people take.
Yeah, but most low-level service jobs don’t deeply harm a person’s sense of self-worth and don’t impair their chances of getting married and having a better job in the future. I’d love it if women were free to express their sexuality as they see fit, but the truth is in almost every society, having “prostitute” on your resume can become a hard thing to ever overcome both emotionally and socially. This goes double for anyone who has been exposed to violence or disease because of it.
Ewww, what? The guy in the article is old, out of shape, and ugly, not even a handsome older man, just downright unappealing. You cannot seriously think that he’s a match for those gorgeous girls. Every single one of them could do a lot better than him. Not to mention he’s a sleazeball who has no problem dumping his ‘girlfriends’ and frankly admits he wants to ‘settle down with’ an Asian sextoy half his age.
I seem to have opened up quite a can of worms. If this gets moved to Great Debates, that’s okay with me.
Maybe it’s just that I’ve been here so long, but prostitution just does not seem that big a deal to me. Since it’s not much of a “forbidden fruit,” maybe that’s why I look at it more as no different from, say, a convenience-store or fast-food worker. It would be exaggerating to say that all Thais approve of it, but it does not always carry the stigma it does ni the West. I know a lot of the preconceived notions that Westerners have regarding the industry over here, but whether they approve, disapprove or are neutral, the notions are usually quite different from reality.
And the wife has no problem with prostitutes. She’s interviewed enough of them! I have never gone into exactly what it is that I or the wife does here in Thailand, preferring to keep some modicum of privacy. What I will tell you now is the wife works for the government. Her office was one time tasked with taking a nationwide census of prostitutes. (Counting Thai prostitutes; what a job! :)) It was not just a head count, though; there were interviews to be done, and different kinds of data obtained. She thought it great fun, so did the rest of her office, and the girls were all nice.
(The number her office came up with was, I believe, 200,000 nationwide – extra surveyors were hired and trained, of course – but the wife admits that was probably low, but they had to go with what their research indicated. Still, that figure was considered “official,” and although estimates of prostitute numbers in Thailand varied wildly from the ridiculously low to the ridiculously high, her office’s number was the most cited. Even Lonely Planet quoted it in two or three editions. However, even if that number had been accurate, which it almost certainly was not, this was maybe 20 years ago and would no longer be valid now.)
Nobody is a “match” for anyone else based on their appearance. There’s no such thing as being “out of his league.” This is a social construct that has been set up, and breaking out of it is a sure way to increase a man’s success at dating. Anyway you’re admitting it yourself, the guy’s personality is what makes him unappealing, not his looks. If this guy was a Doper here who was just a normal guy with a normal life, and posted his picture here, would people be calling him ugly and unappealing? (And he doesn’t even look that out-of-shape for a guy his age, either - again, his frame carries his weight well.) I’m sorry if I’m making such a big issue out of this but it bothers me when people take pointless shots at someone’s physical appearance when the real reason they’re upset is because of the person’s deeds and personality.
Face it, some of the world’s kindest people would be considered physically ugly (Mother Theresa) and some of the most evil men on earth have been extremely handsome (Ted Bundy, Reinhard Heydrich)…
Oh yeah and let me add, that prostitution is only a “shaming,” “degrading,” “hurtful” activity if the society in question puts a huge social stigma upon prostitution! Clearly that is NOT the case in Thailand, and the result is that prostitutes there do NOT feel shamed and degraded. It seems to me that Sam here is the final word on this, since he’s experienced all of this first-hand and everyone else is basically taking their American ideas and trying to apply them to a different culture.
I agree with you. If his actions had been unknown, not many would think much about his appearance. But people want to see a decrepit fat guy with a young Thai girl, maybe even without knowing it.
I can’t say that all prostitutes here don’t feel ashamed about it. It’s certainly often kept quiet. Many’s the girl who’s told me her parents think she works in a factory. (although I imagine the parents know the money she gives them certainly aren’t factory wages.) But there’s a completely different feel about it that’s hard to explain. And the girls who stay in the business do tend to make the most of it and can be very outgoing. The general feeling seems to be: “Well, this is what I do, so I’d best get over it and try to have some fun myself while I’m at it.”
What would classify as a peer? A 50 year old hooker. Would you have a problem with him if he was seeing 50 year old hookers?
If you were going to pay for sex, would you choose this guy if he was offering? No, you’d most likely go for something that approached whatever fantasy you had. And for most that would probably be the hot young pool boy stereotype.
And I don’t want to offend people by pointing out the obvious, but younger women do look better than older ones (in general, not always!). So, it shouldn’t be surprising that johns are going to pay for sex with someone they are attracted to and they will be younger women, not older ones.
What do you mean by handle? Do women need to be ‘handled’? If you mean he doesn’t want to deal with the issues a 50 year old woman could bring to a relationship, then I’d agree with you.
More like he doesn’t want to deal with the issues a whole person could bring into a relationship. These relationships are almost certainly single-dimensional. There is a (one way) physical attraction, but there is almost certainly not a intellectual, emotional or spiritual attraction in these relationships.
People who only get in this kind of relationship lack either the willingness or capacity to treat their partners as whole people. And that is kind of a big sign that you are either very self-absorbed or otherwise damaged. Whole people naturally crave whole relationships with other whole people. Now, a fling with a hooker is different. But if this is the only kind of thing that you are capable of, something is wrong.