Cheap shot. That’s not what I meant at all, and you know it. Boys learn to be men by example. That requires that they hang out with men, and that requires they accomany their fathers to places like garages, locker rooms, and bars during the few free hours that the father’s livelihood allows him.
And Chuck-E-Cheese is not one of these places! This may be where you diagree with me on a whole new level, but being a man means making your marriage work, so you won’t end up taking your kids to visitation-weekend-traps like Chuck-E-Cheese. A weekend for a real dad (as opposed to a “mail in the check” dad) involves fun stuff like changing the oil filter or putting up storm windows, after which he might admire to step around the corner and blow the foam off a cold one. And he should be able to do all this along with your kid, is what I’m saying.
If by “learning how to function in public” you mean “exposing my child to social situations, in which bad behavior is promptly corrected, and prolonged tantrums are dealt with by removing him from the movie theater or other venue where he is clearly disturbing other patrons”, then I absolutely agree.
Unfortunately, the way too many parents handle this “learning experience” is by “ignoring my kid’s loud, disruptive actions and thus teaching him that the screaming fits he throws at home are perfectly acceptable in a public setting, and besides, I am a Parent performing a vital Public Service by Having Progeny, and you Better Cut Me Some Slack.”
And sometimes, dear Parents, you must recognize that there are situations where you do not risk ruining occasions for others by treating them as a learning laboratory for your offspring, such as weddings, nights out at the movies with your two-year-old etc.
Oh, trust me, dirty 1. You will never–NEVER–see my kids throw a tantrum in a public place. If they even come close, I will remove them from the scene–and oddly enough, I was doing this long before you advised me to do so.
However, crying/talking/walking/using the little cart (within reason, of course)/etc does not = feet-kicking-screaming-hair-pulling-I-wanna-CANDY tantruming in the aisles of the supermarket. If my child acts up–either by intentionally bratting or by unintentionally wandering into your path, I will correct him immediately. But you know what? You won’t even know that I’m doing my job, because you’ll already be down the aisle muttering to yourself about how other people should raise their childen.
We learn social skills by being exposed to situations in which those skills are needed. This isn’t some smug concept that only I have–it’s the way it works. If you aren’t actively parenting and don’t have any comprehension of this concept, then you are setting yourself up for a lot of frustration when you’re out in public.
Well said, and I agree. Some events are not kid-friendly, and bored kids = kids who act up. Graduations, weddings, funerals, movies (unless they’re kiddie-oriented), and study sessions are off-limits for my two little ones, and will be until they are old enough to sit still and QUIET for the entire time. I think that’s reasonable.
I think that the comments were directed to irresponsible parents, not ones who care about what their kids do. My food throwing brother grew up to be on the President’s List at his college, so there’s something to be said for good parenting. People shouldn’t interpret this thread as an affront to their precious little one. If you know that your child is well behaved, you don’t have any reason to be offended. I don’t know about the others here, but I was referring to people who get obliviously drunk and ignore their children running around a bar. There are things that go on in a bar that children shouldn’t be exposed to. I know you want your kids to experience all the world has to offer, but I don’t think that includes people dancing provocatively or screaming “I AM SO FUCKING DRUNK!!!” which are things that I have seen these children witness. I’m not a psych major(that’s my brother), but I would have to think that kind of environment is conducive to growing up to be a productive citizen. Let your kids learn about drunks when they’re old enough to comprehend what’s happening. Also, I keep vampire hours, and there are STILL kids there screaming their heads off, at two in the morning. Maybe times have changed from when I was a kid, but don’t kids have bedtimes anymore???
I, too, have been in social situations where I’ve thought, what the hell is that kid’s mom or dad doing? Small children in inappropriate movies, obviously very tired children at bowling alleys at 1 am, etc. But you know…that’s been pretty rare. Rare as that is in my experience, sure as the sun’s gonna rise, every couple of weeks someone comes in here guns blazing saying how there are packs of feral children running the streets and puking in their tea. Come on. My guess is some people have their trigger for irritation set ridiculously low. If the occasional squalling kid gets your asshole wrenched up that tight every time then maybe you should just stay the fuck home. This is the general “you,” not the specific.
Again, maybe I protest too much here (how many people are looking at this and thinking, ooh, Gundy’s little brat’s probably horking snot at some innocent passerby while she drinks whiskey and posts), but I have not encountered this attitude once in my life. I’m not doubting your experience, but I’m not so sure it’s as common as you seem to think it is.
Uhhh…yeah. And? Who’s arguing that here?
I know there will be platitudes like, “Well, I don’t mean parents like YOU…” – but really. You can’t come in here and say, “I can’t stand all these rotten turds running around in grocery store aisles all the time! Kids suck! I’m gonna stomp on their heads like melons!” and not expect some parents – any parents – to be a little assed up.
Listen: it has been widely acknowledged, here and elsewhere, that there is a subset of irresponsible parents whose only goal in life is to make yours miserable with their slobbering shrieking slack-jawed booger factories. This is no surprise, and frankly, it’s more than a little “Hi, Opal!” by now. It sucks hairy donkey balls, I know, they’ve ruined movies for me too. But until we can divide the world into child-full and child-free zones, I guess we parents are going to have to put up with occasional icy stares while shopping at Target when the offspring knocks over a box of crackers and you child-free folks will have to deal with a brat in a restaurant once in a while.
Can’t we just leave it at that and put this shit to bed?
Ah, dirty 1, I do realize that. I get my back up easily about my kids and kids in general…the ol’ protective instinct kicks in, y’know?
I will forever remember when one of my older kids (now 12) decided, at 5, that a tantrum might be the thing to do in the store. He stopped mid-aisle, planted his little feet, threw his head back, and said–LOUDLY–“I’m NOT leaving this STORE until I get my TOY.”
There was a complete, total silence for about 2 seconds, and you could just see the ohshitdidIreallySAYthat look steal slowly over his face. I have never seen a child look that stricken at something that popped out of his mouth. By the time he realized how deep he was in it, I already had him out of the main aisle, into a quiet back aisle, and was giving him the dressing-down of his young life. It was over within a few seconds, but he NEVER forgot that moment. (We laugh about it now–he calls it “the day I got all independent”.)
A child may have the right to be in public as much as I do, or the stranger over there, or that one over there.
But he DOESN’T have the right to be there MORE than I do, or you do, or the stranger over there. When someone starts up with loud bellowing or mewling or what have you and people turn around, that’s the queue to stop it or be an asshole.That applies to everyone. Kids get the leeway of the few moments it takes for his parent to TRY to convey this and to take him out if unsuccessful. If that’s not possible (like on a plane) and the parent’s at least TRIED, I’m going to be a lot nicer to both, even if the kid’s kicking my seat for a couple more hours.
HOWEVER, when his parents don’t react, or get that stupid smug shit-eating wry grin on their face or murmur ineffectual “shhs!” while looking around to make sure they’re getting attention-- they are trying to do something to make their kid behave…like a little Andy Fastow in training. They’re pretty much giving me the finger and encouraging their kid to do the same. I’m going to react in kind.
Oh, so maybe there ARE places where kids have more “right” to be?
Uh, OK. There are exceptions. Playgrounds, for example. Chuck E Cheese, arguably. Which means there are EXCEPTIONS the other way, too. Masas. Ruth’s Steak. Pretty much everywhere where people talk and eat in low voices over candlelight and pay more than fifty bucks. People are paying for atmosphere and if someone insists on bringing something that could go off at any time, he might as well bend over and fart arbitrarily in people’s faces, and should expect the same. A fucking asshole defined.
I was just looking over this thread, and I can’t possibly let this one go unremarked.
Forget the smoke, I’d worry more about the kid getting pinheaded moron tendencies from this guy. I think passing on vicious bigotry is even worse than exposing your kid to the risk of getting emphysema or lung cancer.
Do you suppose he took the kid to a sports bar the next night, just to balance things out? :rolleyes:
When your child attempts to grab my wallet, he’ll greatly enjoy the razor blades embedded within just for him and other offspring of Irish Travelers of the Year.
I for one would enjoy slapping your sanctimonous face with his bloody hand, if he doesn’t do it first. You would richly deserve it.
Hope that’s original enough.
I don’t believe many people here have their bars set too low when regarding children running amok in innapropriate places or at innapropriate times. I, for one, am sick and tired of parents NOT being responsible for their children. And this INCLUDES teaching them how to act in public. I bet there are many people who wouldn’t mind the kiddies in places like this if they knew how to fucking behave. When I was a child I was never, EVER allowed to run about screaming and getting in the way in a public place, wether it be a grocery store or an eating establishment. I went to Jaliscos, a little Mexican restaruant not too far from my home last Thursday with a friend. This was after we got off of work at about 11pm. Throughout the whole meal we had to deal with three younger kids about two or three years old running around and around the tables because their parents had finished and were talking over drinks and therefore too busy to watch the little buggers. They were being attended to by their teenage cousin who was acting like a little bastard all on his own, he was loud and obnoxious. One of the little girls actually came running up to our table and PUT HER HAND IN MY FOOD! Even then I did not snap, the waiter saw and got me another plate of beans and led the little one back to her mother where she stayed for about 2.3 seconds. Pissed off by then I was concentrating on having a good meal with my friend when the teenager started playing an arcade game in the front. It was one of those shooter games with controllers that looked like guns. Again, he was loud, obnoxious and very very vocal as he shot the people on the screen. Whereupon he ran out of quarters and pretended to shoot each of his three little cousins. At this point my hand tightened around my water glass… he “shot” a waiter, and then my friend, then he made the mistake of turning the gun at me. I think I was out of my seat and across the room before I even knew I had gotten up. I disarmed him of his toy and growled, " Do you know what your little cousin would look like with her brains splattered across this dining room? I do. I spend my working days in an ER looking at shit like that. So don’t you EVER point shit at me. Now sit down, SHUT UP and take care of your cousins, and pray that I never have to see them in MY ER."
He sat down, shut up, and hugged each little girl. The parents were quiet and looking at me with kind of a glassy shock. I slammed the fake gun in the holster and walked back over to my table.
About five minutes later, they quietly left…
