Remember when this was the single least controversial rant in the pit?
Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
sux_cq:
My, my…aren’t YOU a fetching new addition to the community?
…so how do YOU get your wallet out, Miss Band-Aid Fingers?
“Fucking asshole defined” indeed. Defensive much?
Let’s see, suz_cq says exactly the SAME FUCKING THING that has been said fifteen times, in this thread and others like it…nope. Don’t feel too bad about saying so. And for the record, that wallet-lifting JOKE – get that, hon? JOKE! – wasn’t even directed at your screeching ass. So your remarks are duly noted and discarded.
AquaPura, all I’m saying is everyone has a horrible-kid story. Everyone. And most of them have been related here. I’m not doubting anyone’s experiences, I’m saying that the 90% of kids who behave decently do not get noticed. This is a tempest in a teapot.
Yah know, these types of people were assholes before they had children. They just had cell phones in the movie instead of the child.
For some people life is all about THEM. Add child and life either is still all about them and they take child into rated R movie because they want to see it or life becomes all about their darling child and we should all have to put up with child’s adorable tantrum (aren’t they cute pushing that cart into your ankle).
Horse shit.
I am a single mother who has raised three wonderful kids. My oldest son is a very successful, living on his own, buying his own house, in love with his girlfriend, almost 21 year old MAN!
My 11 year old son is a jock. He pitches baseball, and was voted All-Star in basketball and baseball the last three years. He is obsessed with the girls, opens door for the ladies, and a charmer. He is 100 percent boy.
My daughter is wonderful too, but then again, she has a FEMALE to show her how to be a WOMAN. :rolleyes:
I raised them alone.
Explain again how boys need men to show them how to be men.
Diane, you’re the greatest!
I’m afraid that that only shows your sons were born with very powerful immune systems, to be able to fight off the cooties like that.
Drastic, you do know you’re going to Hell for that one, don’t you? On the bright side, though, that’s fewer boy germs floating around out there 
.
I know nothing of the sort. I am however willing to listen to further clarification and admit that I jumped to an unfounded conclusion, if such an admission is indeed required. So let’s look at the detailed explanation that points out where I was mistaken.
If by “being a man” you mean being a responsible, mature, adult human male, I agree with this statement completely.
See, here you’re undermining your claim that I was deliberately misinterpreting your previous statement. You once again claim that a boy learns to be a man by engaging in stereotypically male activities with men.
My comment about kiddie pizza places was aimed at someone else, hence my begining that section by using his name. However, I do disagree with you here as well. A parent or other adult can demonstrate and require polite, responsible, considerate behavior even in an establishment that caters primarily to children. I agree that children of a certain age need to gradually be exposed to more adult-oriented situations as they are able to behave properly, but responsible behavior can be taught anywhere the kids come into contact with other people.
Apparently my father wasn’t a man. His marriage to my mother failed.
Apparently my father wasn’t a real dad either. I don’t think we ever worked on the car or house or went to a bar together.
And once more you explain “being a man” by listing stereotypically masculine behaviors that real men do and by extension real dads do with their sons. I see one tangential reference to being a responsible person.
I would define a man behaviorally as a male who is a responsible, mature adult.
A good father is one who spends time with his children of both sexes, protects, provides for, and nurtures his children, sets a good example for them by treating others with consideration and respect, supports and respects their dreams even when they differ from his, and shows them unconditional love.
Substitute mother for father in the above paragraph and you have my definition of a good mother.
This may be accomplished by repairing the house and car, watching sports, or visiting a family type bar to hang out with the guys, and a variety of other “masculine” activities. It can also be accomplished by visiting the library together, going to the museum or aquarium, playing chess and go, watching and discussing old movies, or building a computer from a kit and spending hours trying to program it to add 2+2. The activities themselves matter much less than the attitude brought to them and the lessons learned from them.
So let’s see if I jumped to the wrong conclusion. You said:
“There are still neighborhood taverns where guys can take their sons and watch a ballgame with their buddies. The dad can show off his kid, the kid learns how to be a man,”
and
“That requires that . . . [boys] accomany their fathers to places like garages, locker rooms, and bars”
and
“A weekend for a real dad . . . involves fun stuff like changing the oil filter or putting up storm windows, after which he might admire to step around the corner and blow the foam off a cold one.”
You still seem to be defining being a real man and a good father as doing masculine things.
Nope, I don’t think my first statement was a cheap shot. If anything, you’ve given it more weight than it previously had.
Sure, but it’s a long list. I plan to cause them database problems.
As for #1 in the OP, there’s really not much to be concerned about with regards to exposure to smoke. That’s not what I’d consider a problem, as the chance that ETS will actually cause any health maladies, let alone emphesyma, simply from visiting a bar…well, the kid probably has a much better chance of suffering it just walking down the street in Los Angeles. Of more concern would be the potential for various things to happen to the child in that environment at the hands of other people, objects, etc., if poorly supervised.
The other points I agree with completely.
To Gundy, I think there’s a distinct difference between places like BW3, Old Chicago, and other big franchised sports bars. They cater to parents with children in their larger franchises by separating the seating into a bar area (generally smoking allowed) and a dining area (generally non-smoking, for those who are still concerned about the ETS thing.)
Anyway, most of these problems share a common cause. Parents think they can still live their lives as they were before they became parents. If they went out to bars 4 nights a week before, they’re still doing it. If they decided on a whim to catch an ‘R’-rated movie once and awhile, they’re still doing it.
I think the solution is to have more businesses and establishments that forbid children. Not just bars and other “adult” places, but all places. A restaurant or movie theatre that didn’t allow children under 17 to be there would be a success with us singles who don’t want to be exposed to children.
Perhaps we can’t eliminate the “parent-centric” aspect of society, but we could limit it and find ourselves a little niche in which to live kid-free.
You’re absolutely right (well, you didn’t say between places like BW3 and what, but I understand what you’re saying). There are places I wouldn’t take my son.
**
I’m sure they would. On Boy-less evenings I might even partake, if the non-parents can tolerate my kid stink.
Well-said Gundy.
But what the hell does “exposed to children” mean. Jesus, what about children freaks these people out so much? Eeewww. Kids!
Polite, well-behaved children are a joy, in my opinion. Bratty kids have the power to make us all miserable, but its the parents you ought to be getting upset at. Unless its kids in general you hate, and to that I must say “get a grip”. Go live in Antarctica if you can’t take kids, because there’s no getting away from them anywhere else.
I think you’re eqating “men” with “their fathers.” I have seven sisters, most of whom are several years older than me, which probably explains why I grew up to be so sensitive. If my siblings’ genders were reversed, maybe I would have turned out more macho. OTOH, one of my sisters is a divorced mother of two and her son turned out much like yours but had some diffculty with her daughter. Perhaps Trove should have added a “YMMV”?