Maybe the same old power structure have sussed out the fact that they can pay 67 cents on the dollar for a dedicated labor supply that is diligent and loyal, and the fact that that labor supply really think they’re making progress is just gravy. All this relationship stuff is just background noise. To be clear, I am very much against this type of exploitation, but I fear it is the new paradigm.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat - like saving money before having kids, which is easier if your reasons for not having kids at 25 incldue pursuing advanced degrees and working on your career. My dad (an engineer with an MBA) has managed all these things just fine - he is retiring at the end of the year with one kid (I should clarify that the kid is by far the youngest; my half-brother was born the month after I graduated college, when my dad was 49). Money wasn’t the issue at all; their home is paid for, they have plenty of savings, and education is paid for. Stepmom (a lawyer in a public-sector management position)will still be working for a while yet (she’s 14 years younger than Dad), and Dad certainly could have retired years ago (he’s 71), but he actually liked his work. (Though I imagine the extra money came in handy to pay for my brother’s law school.)
Oh tosh! You say tom-A-to, I say tom-AH-to.
In other news, I am pleased to hear that I’ve ruined my son’s life by having him at 37. It’s a wonder the poor little devil survived at all, given my advanced age.
One thing I will caution you about even sven - I’m the age you seem to be suggesting is optimal to have a baby. I don’t disagree with you - having my shit together certainly seems to assist with the whole child rearing thing. I sure as heck wouldn’t want to do this myself though. Don’t underestimate the option of looking at your partner and saying ‘Honey - I had a crap day at work - do you mind taking over baby duty tonight so I can have a bubble bath?’ because nannies don’t work 24 hours a day, and even if your child is at a day home all day (like mine) while I’m thrilled to see him, some nights I’m just not in 100% mommy mode. It’s really nice to be able have hubby step up to the plate.
Do single women get the job done? Yes, all over the place. My point is I really wouldn’t CHOOSE to go down that road. I think Junior benefits from having two parents to look out for him, if only because if one of us is tired, the other one can still be Super Involved Uber Parent! or whatever.
As with many other things the decision to have a child later or earlier in life runs along a bell curve. Some women have no problems conceiving into their late 30’s and early 40’s while others are going to be shut out if they get past their mid thirties. As obnoxious as some fight find Treis opinions he’s right about the biological aspect. Female fertility does not slope down gently past age 35, it starts falling off a cliff for a lot of women.
Pushing conceiving into the late 30s and early 40’s is doable if nature (and possibly technology) cooperate but it’s a substantially bigger gamble than conceiving at younger ages.
It starts earlier than that, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, and frankly, a lot of women who put off kids are actually sort of ambivalent about them anyway. IME, women from whom having kids IS the priority, they are willing to settle for less in a husband, less in income so that they reach their goal - kids - early.
And I don’t think you CAN’T have it all. As long as you don’t expect ALL to be perfect. I have a high earning professional husband. Two lovely (currently driving me crazy) children. My own high earning professional career. I don’t have the cleanest house in the world though :D. The question is what are you willing to settle for? What are your priorities? Most of us aren’t going to be able to marry good looking guys with high powered careers, have a summer home in the Hamptons, become C level execs of big companies, and raise our 2.5 kids. But that doesn’t mean you have to settle for a guy who lives in his mom’s basement - and she still does his laundry, has a face that only a mother could love, and hasn’t been able to hold any steady job for three years. Somewhere beyond these extremes are two people capable on their own of being financially stable, both with ambition and drive, who might not look like movie stars - but shower every day…i.e. people who share similar values and goals - who will make a good couple.
I really don’t think most women are looking for Mr. Big. But they are looking for “Mr. Financially Stable” and “Mr. I Can Put My Own Dishes in the Dishwasher and Throw in a Load of Laundry” and “Mr. I Care Enough About My Self to Physically Take Care of Myself” Just like guys aren’t looking for “Ms. Perfect” but they would like “Ms. I Don’t Turn Into a Flaming Bitch When You Want to Hang with the Guys on Friday” and “Ms. You Don’t Need to Support Me in the Standard in Which I’d Like to Become Accostomed” and “Ms. I Care Enough About Myself to Physically Take Care of Myself.”
Reading through this thread, I’m reminded of the threads we’ve had in the past where some “forward thinking” guy complains about how if women get knocked up and don’t want to have the kid, they can have an abortion. But if the guy doesn’t want the kid and the woman does, he’s saddled with child support payments for the next 18 years. The response is usually, “Biology makes it her choice. Suck it up.”
I see some women in this thread talking about how guys can have kids later in life with fewer downsides than they can and it’s not fair. Well, it’s biology. Suck it up.
That’s funny. I’ve seen nothing of the sort.
From my reading, all the women who have admitted to delaying child-rearing in this thread seem to be well aware of the risks. They have even said they will probably have regrets in the future.
I agree with Dangerosa. There’s not a whole lot of overlap between women who always have wanted to be mommies with a house full of babies and ambitious, career-minded women. Most of the latter that I’ve known are fine with one kid or even none at all.
The problem is not that Treis’s figures are wrong. I’m sure they are correct. The problem is that he presents a false dilemma. The dilemma he presents is “have children younger, when you are more likely to have healthy children, or have children older, when the children have more chance of being born with certain disorders.”
But that’s now how life is for some people, such as myself. For me, I never had any chance of having children when I was younger. I didn’t date when I was in my 20s. (Not by choice, that’s just what happened.) So the only choice was “have children older, or not have children at all”. And I want children.
So I had children. Or at least, I have one child. Who is perfectly healthy. And a joy.
Men who wait to have kids are also at risk for having “disordered” children. Just so ya’ll know…it’s not just women who have to be careful.
This thread isn’t about people who had life happened to them. This thread has been about the single and fabulous crowd, not the people who spent their twenties being held captive by the FARC.
Everyone has life happen to them, don’t they?
There are so many forms of “single and fabulous” it’s tough to talk to talk about them all at once. Some women simply don’t care to have a long term partner or kids. Some women would like to have kids, but are ambivalent or even hostile to the idea of a long term partner. Some would like a long term partner, but are on the fence or do not want kids. Some people would like both a long term partner and kids, but have yet to find a partner who really adds anything to their lives. Some people tried their best, but the relationship the invested their time and effort into didn’t work out. Some desperately want a partner, but are unable to find anyone. Some are not great partners themselves. Some simply have no idea what they want. Some are perfectly content with their situation and wouldn’t have it any other some. Some are crying in their sleep about it. Most are probably somewhere in the middle.
No. You and your friends chose the single and fabulous life. Ending up single at 35 because you didn’t look for a long term relationship until 34 isn’t life happening. It’s a direct consequence of choices you made.
What do you think i should do to avoid the terrible fate (except, I don’t think it’s that terrible…in fact it sounds kind of nice) of being horrifically single past my sell-by date?
Hold “are you suitable to marry me” interviews until I find someone who fits the (likely abridged) checklist?
Sit on the street with a “Will get hitched in exchange for sperm and a physical male presence in my house” sign?
Join an Indian arranged marriage website?
Call up the guys I broke up with because I was miserable when I was with them, and beg them to take me back?
Just hang around throwing myself out there until someone- anyone- asks?
Change my name to Anastasia, speak in a ridiculous accent and try to becomes some poor slob’s mail order bride?
I have been in long term relationships and probably could have turned a couple of them into a proposal, but I didn’t like them. I didn’t enjoy them. Eventually, I stopped investing in stuff that I did not find fulfilling, and invested in things I did. And I’m 10X happier than when I was trying to be something I’m not doing something I don’t value and don’t enjoy.
If you want to be single, be single. I don’t care.
In all fairness, being tied down with marriage and kids in your 20s seems like it sucks.
If you suddenly don’t care, what has been motivating you to post your words of wisdom?
Here is the pervasive message:
“Most guys aren’t good enough for most women.”
Here is the nagging suspicion:
It’s being put out there by people trying to sell other shit.
You don’t have to fuck me, you don’t have to marry me and have my kids, you don’t even have to return my “good morning” on the street since so many rapists look just like me. But don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.
Are you new here?
Let me introduce you to IMHO and the SDMB. This is where we make sweeping generalizations about strangers’ lives with little information. We pepper these posts with occasional snark and biting comments. We do this because it is less boring than the work or other stuff we are supposed to be doing, not because we care deeply about their lives.
I deeply care about their lives.
I’m not quite following why that falsifies the dilemma. Your decision to wait on having kids due to life circumstances, and roll the dice as an older woman who wanted children simply meant that you were willing to take the risk, and it worked out for you, as it does for the large majority of older women who (if they can conceive) have perfectly healthy babies.