You mention “seeing a lot of votes and unvotes” during the last Day in Wellington, and apparently you are doing the same, planning to unvote Rin if [some scenario happen].
Lots of votes/unvotes is not uncommon, specially when there’s a good Town claim, like peeker claiming mason. I don’t understand why you mention this. Are you kinda new to mafia games? New enough that seeing lots of unvote is a novelty to you?
Because it worked for Wellington doesn’t mean we have to do it in London today (re: unvoting a lot). Saying in advance that you plan to unvote someone [because it worked in Wellington] is sorta saying you are Town and want to duplicate a winning behavior, giving yourself a free pass to unvote later in the Day. That’s scummy.
“If I travel, we will learn that someone has a deport power”.
I don’t see this explanation as a good reason to claim. I think that you could have claimed after being forced to travel, with the same result, without throwing an unnecessary claim (some will not agree with me here, but I already stated my disapproval of claiming travel abilities without a good reason).
So I am still in doubt about your true reason to claim.
Not sure what to make of you, Wolverine. My head is seeing scummy behavior, but my gut is telling me that you would be prudent if you were scum. I’ll keep my eyes on you and I’ll be waiting to hear if you are new to this game.
If this isn’t your first game on Straight Dope, maybe you can throw in a link, for good measure? I’d like to see how your posts looked in previous games, if any. Or maybe I should be looking at this myself, it’s not like I have tons of posts to analyze.
Let’s lynch him! Oh wait, that’s me. Never mind. :smack:
Going back to Scuba_Ben in New Zealand, I think I’m now on the opposite side of the town/scum divide. Romanic made a good point about when Natlaw voted Scuba. So I tried to look at Scuba_Ben’s lonely vote and reasoning on Mahaloth (466). Scuba has very shaky reasons for voting. Mahaloth was not alone in voting for peekercpa, but like the others withdrew it after peeker claimed. Mahaloth then voted for Suburban Plankton but then switched to Natlaw after continuing to see evidence. Scuba goes after Mahaloth for not believing Natlaw’s VT claim. That seems awfully generous of Scuba_Ben even though Natlaw has already voted against Scuba.
I’m really confused about the scum situation in London as well. I’m going to keep my vote on Rin Twisted until I hear why they abstained from voting. Otherwise, I’m completely lost.
How can you manage to “unsubscribe yourself accidentally” from a thread?
I’ve seen people miss a part of the game because they didn’t subscribe, and didn’t realize that the game had started, but unsubscribing accidentally is odd enough to ask for an explanation.
And forgetting about the game? Sheesh, are you trying to look that disinterested or are you really disinterested?
–
OOG question: Why “NAF” in your nickname? Wondering if it means what I think it means.
I tend to agree. And Astral Rejection’s confirmed innocence lends weight to his (?) earlier case against the same.
Also, that late run of votes to lynch Baffle instead of ShadowFacts has been nagging at me. It was a very close race, which ended with a townie getting lynched. Such things happen, where it turns out both parties were innocent. But, at the least, knowing which side Shadow is batting for should help to clarify what happened there.
[post=13266137]Post 504[/post] : Romanic starts to build a case against Drain Bead by citing [post=13235810]post 197[/post] and [post=13239682]post 213[/post].
Shadow’s case in 197 is that Drain Bead is falsely stating that “many” people are biased against travellers. He then gathers cited from London players (remember, at this point London was in their first Day and Wellington was asleep, so only London players had had a chance to post substantively.)
[post=13218125]Post 59[/post] : USCDiver reckons that Townies must be able to travel. No bias against travellers there.
[post=13224185]Post 84[/post] : The infamous post by ShadowFacts. The trouble is the way it is structured. ShadowFacts leads of by saying that he intended to vote for anyone travelling on the assumption that vanilla would not. This is the first impression that we get from ShadowFacts’s post, and although he changed his mind (and said so in that post) the first impression is, whether he likes it or not, that he is biased against travellers and “came out with all guns blazing.”
[post=13228181]Post 130[/post] : ShadowFacts still thinks it sensible to “pay close attention” to travellers.
[post=13224380]Post 87[/post] : Pleo agrees that travellers are automatically suspect. He also wants people to state their travel capability ([post=13229080]post 142[/post]).
[post=13224773]Post 91[/post] : Suburban is “suspicious of anyone who does a lot of travelling.”
[post=13225041]Post 93[/post] : Rin Twisted asks if you can avoid jail by travelling.
[post=13225591]Post 103[/post] : Baffle doesn’t believe that all ICR can travel, speculates about deporter role.
[post=13226815]Post 114[/post] : Romanic does not believe travel is necessarily bad.
[post=13230837]Post 165[/post] : Mental Guy thinks it logical to be suspicious of travellers.
[post=13233005]Post 178[/post] : Drain Bead got the feeling the ICR would travel only if wholly necessary.
So, there we have the expressed opinions of eight players (out of, iirc, twelve. Idle Thoughts, Mrs. McGinty, NAF1138 and I have no opinions expressed, at least none that ShadowFacts cited.) Of the eight players who did get cited, three (Pleo, Suburban Plankton and Mental Guy) unequivocally expressed suspicion of travellers, and ShadowFacts, while he recanted his initial reaction, failed to convey that to everyone (Idle, Pleo and Drain Bead, at least, believed he suspected travellers – or said they did.) That’s one third of the total active players at that point. “Many” is a fair categorisation. Therefore, ShadowFacts’s case is not well grounded/
Romanic then alleges that Drain Bead, in 213, “ignored” post 197. However, Drain did not ignore Shadowfacts’s case; she called it “disingenuous” in a paragraph that Romanic chose to snip out. This is what Drain Bead said.
This is (or appears to me to be) a direct response to 197.
Romanic’s case here feels as if he’s stretching to make a case against Drain Bead on spurious grounds, and is the first strong “ping” I’ve had all Day.
Ok, I’m all caught up. Honestly, I think that you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill here.
Yes, but Drain Bead wasn’t the only person to make this mistake. Idle had a long back-and-forth with ShadowFacts on the issue, and Cookies says she voted for Shadow because she had the same mistaken impression.
Honestly, the gulf between what ShadowFacts actually said and how DB interpreted it is so wide that I really can’t understand why you’re jumping to the conclusion that DB deliberately misinterpreted Shadow rather than just made a mistake. Scum will certainly try to misrepresent other player’s positions, but to claim that somebody said the exact opposite of what they actually said? That’s going too far. Scum would never get away with that. Maybe it’s just because I know that DB was arguing honestly, but I don’t really see how the most likely interpretation is that she deliberately misrepresented Shadow(and therefore she’s scum) rather than she just made a mistake and misread Shadow’s post(which could equally happen to either scum or town).
In light of the fact that DB has had to sub out, are you reconsidering this? I’m hardly unbiased here, but it strikes me more as a player who got overwhelmed by RL and wasn’t able to keep up with the game.
I certainly can’t know, but I can guess. Drain Bead didn’t post at all after her vote. The most likely explanation that I can see is that she just didn’t have the time to keep up with the game and never saw Shadow’s post before the deadline.
Post #213 by Drain Bead is not really an answer to ShadowFacts’ #197. It does not address the posts that ShadowFacts listed (in #197) where he was proving that in fact, not so many players had a bias against travelers.
And if you feel this is really a reply to #213 because DB wrote:
then you are wrong. “his own post” here refers to one of the early post by ShadowFacts, included in spoiler below, for which ShadowFacts had to defend many times already that he did not say he was suspicious of travelers.
What he said really was… [quoting one of my previous post]
And here’s post #84.
[SPOILER]
[/SPOILER]Also, many Kiwis pointed out Drain Bead’s behavior and I am following on that because they are right.
Many Kiwis also addressed DB’s posts
#262 Guiri - Pointing out that Drain Bead had a wrong reason to vote ShadowFacts. #266 Mahaloth - Drain Bead was “way off”. #269 USCDiver - Agreeing with ShadowFacts, to some degree, that there was not many posts were showing bias against travelers] #285 Mahaloth - Drain Bead might have scummy motivation. #369 Mahaloth - “London needs to take a good look at Drain Bead”. #430 Guiri - DB made an incorrect interpretation and she was wrong. #431 Cookies - Asking if someone else is more worthy of a vote than DB, implying she might vote DB today in London.
I am following on these suspicions, putting pressure on Drain Bead because these guys cannot do so themselves, and I clearly mentioned this when I placed my votes.
So I am really not sure why you are saying that I am “stetching” a case here. My feeling is that you have not read everything, that you are missing some information, because I can’t explain your case otherwise.
Yeah, I’ll give you that this is a good argument. If other players made the mistake of misreading ShadowFacts’ #84 post, then it’s more acceptable that she also did it.
Still it does not explain why DB ignored Shadow’s argumentation: a) when he proved that many of us had no bias against travelers b) when he explained what his first post really meant.
Even after that argumentation, DB voted for ShadowFacts. And when he argued more, DB didn’t change her vote, or unvote. She might have been busy RL, or she might be ignoring the facts on purpose. Which is which, I don’t know.
Scum not being obvious - is an argument that I often use in my analysis (in fact I did so a few posts above, on Wolverine), however in this case I don’t think that the misrepresentation is so obvious. That’s something we can debate, but I think the fact that Kiwis brought this up first show that it’s not obvious, or DB would have garnered more heat yesterDay (in London).
Yeah, it’s possible that she had to be replaced due to real life. I’d agree that it would be a “cheap” way to release some heat, if she is scum and asked for a replacement when leading the tally. For some players, I would outright remove my vote on the basis that they would not make such a move, but I don’t know Drain Bead.
Am I reconsidering my vote? Not at the moment. I am pleased to get a debate on DB, unlike the last 72 hours, but what I said in an earlier post still stand:
“Welcome to the game Rysto! As far as I’m concerned, you’re still our best lynch.”
It happens more often than I would like to admit when I am reading the SDMB on my phone. If I go to click a link before the page has fully loaded it will occasionally click a nearby link after the page does a final render. I usually catch it when I click unsubscribe, but this time I must not have.
Well it wasn’t so much that I was disinterested, as it was that I was distracted. I was playing another game, and sick, and dealing with the busiest time of year at my office and getting ready for the holidays at home (my in laws are visiting).
I logged on at the office today and was reading some other stuff and the forbidden thread came up when I clicked “new posts” and I sort of went :smack: and wondered if the new Day had started yet. Then I saw that it was half over. :smack::smack:
On the upside, I am now dead in that other game, I am not sick anymore, and things are slowing down considerably at the office. On the downside the in laws are showing up tomorrow.
It doesn’t. I should probably change it to something more interesting, but I have been using NAF since 1994 as my internet id. It my initials. The 1138 is an homage to THX1138 because in 1994 when I was 12 George Lucas was still super cool and THX1138 seemed like a hip and obscure reference. I am a creature of habit and haven’t ever changed it.
Unlike NAF, I did not forget about the game, but I have been busy over the weekend. I also was thinking that the end of Day was Thursday instead of Wednesday.
First, and I realize no one has really focused on it, but I thought I should address Normal Phase’s analysis of my first post. I figure once I show up, someone will eventually ask me about it anyway. I am going to respond to each of Normal Phase’s comments in a separate post, but I think you will find that “looking at and acknowledging all the possibilities” is a general trait of mine and that it often makes me come off as indecisive. I am sure that if you looked at past games I have played you would find similar posts whether I was Town or scum. However, I do think there are some things in that post that Normal was stretching to portray as scummy. Enough so that I would find Normal suspicious except that there is apparently scum here in London (based on Astral’s death last Night) and it is likely at least one of them would have pushed this case if they were Normal’s teammate.
Also, concerning our friends in New Zealand, Idle said he didn’t understand my proposal to have vanillas travel. Then why didn’t he ask Suburban Plankton for clarification since he made the exact same proposal. For the record, I wasn’t necessarily suggesting that Idle travel, since if he is Town, he is most likely vanilla and scum would ignore him anyway. I meant that unknown vanillas might travel occasionally to draw Night Kills.
Regarding Rin Twisted, I don’t like it that he did not vote, but I would also like to know that he is actually still playing (or even posting or reading the board) before I delve into that too much. I mean if he is lurking that is one thing, but if there has been a death in the family or something like that, then that is different.
I still doubt that Wolverine is scum based on the same reasoning as yesterDay, but I find it more likely now than before. First is his vote on Rin Twisted which is a nice safe vote. But I guess what bothers me even more is the nice smudge he puts on me in post 509.
As far as the race between Drain (now Rysto) and Shadow, the post that bothers me the most as I go back and read is post 197. I agree that the “guns blazing” comment was overly hyperbolic, but Shadow’s reply has several comments that are not really about whether travelers should be suspicious that he supposedly uses to make the point that players are not going to find travellers automatically suspicious. USCDiver’s comment is just about when Town and scum travel, nothing about suspicions. Pleo feels that anyone who does travel need to justify themselves. I would categorize that as being suspicious of travellers. He then includes quotes from Rin Twisted, Suburban Plankton, and Baffle that don’t really address the question of whether travellers should be suspicious. He then quotes Romanic stating that it “appears travelling is not necessarily a bad thing”, but Romanic was coming at that from the point of view of the person travelling, not the outsiders watching. He then quotes Pleonast saying “we have no reason to expect any correlation between travel capability and citizenship, alignment, or other powers”. Of course this only addresses the capability of travelling, not whether an actual traveller is suspicious or not. Of the players that make a clear statement one way or the other, they agree at least that they “should pay really close attention to who is travelling.”
I didn’t really find the post NAF originally voted Shadow for that suspicious, because honestly, it was saying almost the same things I had said (repeating me was about the only thing that I found suspicious about it). But now that I have gone back and looked at this, I think post 197 stretches way too far to try make its point and when looked at closely, does not even succeed.
Sorry about that. It wasn’t trying to say anything about you, positive or negative. I was trying to show that Rin Twisted made a post solely to address me and my scumminess. It is only coincidental that Rin used your post. The paraphrase in 509 is of Rin Twisted, not of you.
Misclicks on cell phones. I don’t surf with a cell, but I guess this is a satisfying answer. I can see how a cellphone won’t always do what you want, touch devices in particular.
I see, you’re talking about the game on Idle Mafia where you were the scum godfather. I bet that took a lot of your time, so alright. I’ll look forward to read more from you in this game.
Can you point which part of Normal’s post you considered stretching? I’m not sure if I agree with Normal’s interpretation of your posts, but I think it’s easy to categorize something as stretching, without going into the details, so I’d like to hear you give more details.
For the record, I don’t think travelers are suspicious and if I don’t believe traveling is a bad thing, it necessarily means that I would not suspect players because they travel. ShadowFacts was right to draw this conclusion and use my post as a reference.
I think I’ve made my views clear on post #197 now, and I don’t see how you can characterize it as trying too hard. DB said that people had a bias against travelers and Shadow came back with many quotes to prove her otherwise. Providing proof and arguing is something that I would expect a player to do, something that DB didn’t do when she voted ShadowFacts without addressing his proof. Evading questions and argumentation is something a scum will do when they feel they can’t get the upper hand. ShadowFacts thorough argumentation and/or Drain Bead lack of time to participate may explain why, as a scum, she decided to ignore Shadow’s posts.
I’m on my way out for supper, but as there’s only 24 hours left in the Day I really need to get a vote on the record. I need to go over our Day One again but I’m really not seeing the ShadowFacts case right now. It feels to me like the whole thing is just echoes of the misunderstanding of what he said re: travellers.
I’m not voting for Romanic because OMGUS votes always get me into trouble.
I guess that leaves either a one-off vote or a prod on Rin Twisted. I’m not really happy with either option but I don’t yet have a good feel for the players in this game and I think that a prod is appropriate here.
I would like any Town still participating to read this post (aside from “Ol’ Bandwagon McGinty” of course) and consider if there are any actual valid reasons to vote for me here. I’ll give you a hint: there ain’t. Completely bogus vote, against which there is no defense. Seriously: remember this vote for later.
That said, it seems likely that I’m going to get it toDay (and expected as much after the result yesterDay). So I’m not going to waste time going over the same crap that I already went over 5 times, and I’ve already got a vote here on who I think is most scummy. Rather, I’m going to take a good long look at what happened in Wellington and give my thoughts about that, which will hopefully be useful to the Kiwis after I flip over here. So, more from me later tonight.
