Okay here’s the (purely hypothetical, of course!) situation. A couple is having an argument. It’s nasty. It’s going on all day long. Via email. This sort of thing is not terribly unusual in this couple’s dynamic. One half of the argument (Loose Lips) discusses the argument with a friend (BFF.) Also via email. A very good, very close friend who is quite often involved in “damn that person!” discussions/rants/vents of this kind and reciprocates with rants/vents back to LL as well when the shoe is on the other foot and BFF is having the argument.
Several days after the argument in question, the other half of the arguing couple (Sneak) “just happens” to log into the work email of Loose Lips and “just happens” to see the heading of an email from BFF (200 messages down the page) and “accidentally” opens it and finds out that the argument was a topic of discussion by LL and BFF. Nothing personal or rude was in the email in question, more of a “Argh, I can NOT believe Sneak is going on about this AGAIN, gahhh!” kind of general rant. See the Pit for examples in mini rants. About that level of vitriol, or less. No naughty language, work email account. General terms, no names mentioned. Not content to just be pissed, Sneak sends Loose Lips a rude email about it. Accusations of mopery and dopery ensue.
It should be made perfectly clear that LL has made no bones about the fact that there are few if any topics of discussion that are off limits to BFF and never have been. LL has made it clear to Sneak on many previous occasions that there is no expectation of privacy where BFF is concerned, especially if Sneak is being heinously assholish. There is strong reason to presume that the relationship of LL and Sneak has probably benefited from sage counsel and vent relief of BFF. BFF has never had a problem with carrying over any resentment to Sneak over things LL has discussed with BFF and has always been evenhanded–does not judge Sneak over stuff LL says, understanding that all such arguments are necessarily one sided. What I’m trying to get across here is that LL and BFF having this email exchange is business as usual of many years standing.
Sneak maintains that LL owes an apology for discussing the argument in the first place. LL maintains that Sneak should sack up like every other sneak who found out something unpleasant and just deal with it–but that having failed to do so is doubly wrong for A) snooping into a private email in the first place, and B) refusing to apologize.
So my poll question is this:
Have you/would you snoop a private work email account belonging to a significant other?
Have you been snooped in such a manner, that you know of?
Would you consider this to be a grave invasion of privacy or is it no big deal to you?
3A. If you go with “grave invasion,” would it be enough to end the relationship over?
There is no such thing as a “private work email account”. And can you make the rest of the OP less convoluted so I can figure out WTF is going on? Brain huurts!
Sorry, I was doing my level best to keep gender and identities out of it. If it helps any, Sneak does not work for the same company LL does and got into the email on the server of the web host for the company’s domain by logging into the master web mail account, not by looking into email kept on a local computer. <–{{ Now THAT was a convoluted sentence!
Technically, there is no such thing as ANY private email, but I think most people in committed relationships (at least the ones I know) consider their spouse’s email to be something best stayed the hell out of (unless they share an account, of course.)
A) Boyo Jim is correct. There is no such thing as a “private work email account.”
B) The proper way to bitch about a relationship to a friend is in person, normally with alcoholic beverages involved. Personally I find email to be a poor substitute, but YMMV.
C) It is the nature of relationships that one person will, from time to time, make the other person angry, and that person will vent. Sneak should accept that as fact.
Male, and probably old enough to be the father of everyone involved.
Have you/would you snoop a private work email account belonging to a significant other?
Not snoop, but read. With the other’s consent of course.
Have you been snooped in such a manner, that you know of?
No.
Would you consider this to be a grave invasion of privacy or is it no big deal to you?
No big deal. In fact I would probably find it mildly amusing (not that I would necessarily let on).
Email is a terrible way to have an argument, and not much good for venting either. I vote for phone conversations for venting, and face-to-face arguments.
What are you guys talking about “no such thing as a private work email account”??
So it’s just perfectly fine for your SO to log in to your work account, from home, and read your work email?
There’s no such thing as private work email between the people who own the company servers and the people who use the company servers. But that doesn’t mean all email is up for grabs by just anybody. Sheesh!
Unless one of the people involved is the owner of the company and the other is a co-worker, then there’s no privacy. Otherwise…whoever read someone else’s work email has crossed a huge line.
I started to answer all of the questions, but it comes down to this - my partner has no right going through my e-mail, ever, unless I am dead or missing. I have no right going through his e-mail unless he is dead or missing.
I don’t even open his mail (and vice versa) unless I’m positive it’s a bill or he says it’s OK.
What do they say about eavesdroppers? You never learn anything good about yourself. In this case, the LL wasn’t doing a damn thing wrong - just venting - and Sneak has only himself to blame for being bothered.
You’ll get no argument (heh) from me on this, however if one half of an arguing couple is unable or unwilling to control anger it’s quite often more productive to restrict communication to things which have to be thought about at least as long as it takes to type, and also the ability to hold off on the “send” button is quite often a great benefit.
It’s also very hard to phone vent when one is trying to do one’s job while all this is going on.
I realize I wasn’t totally clear on one point–the main argument was taking place over personal web based email accounts–not the work account.
kunilou–I wouldn’t make any bets on your being older than everyone involved, it’s not by any means a slam dunk here! It just looks like squabbling twentysomethings–sure wish it were otherwise but c’est la vie and stuff…
I think the real issue here wasn’t just the “accidental” access of the work email but the immediate angry response to it–I’ve always felt that if you make a habit of spying on people you have no one but yourself to blame if you hear something you don’t like–and I myself have been caught in this way so I know whereof I speak. There’s an escalation of betrayal in using communication obtained unethically to lambaste an opponent that sticks in my craw and I can’t tell if it’s just me or if it really does suck as a tactic.
Have you/would you snoop a private work email account belonging to a significant other?
No, I would never access my SO’s work e-mail, unless he explicitly gave me permission to do so. While work e-mail is not private per se, I find it incredibly odd that anyone would think it’s ok to access or read such e-mail without permission. I have an expectation of privacy from my SO on this, even though I have no expectation of privacy from my employer.
Have you been snooped in such a manner, that you know of?
Yes, but not by an SO. A secretary accessed an e-mail she shouldn’t have accessed and even though it was one I received (and therefore had no control over), it caused a big hubbub that I had to smooth over. After than, I made sure no one has access to my e-mail.
Would you consider this to be a grave invasion of privacy or is it no big deal to you?
I would consider this a HUGE invasion of my privacy.
3A. If you go with “grave invasion,” would it be enough to end the relationship over?
Probably not, but my trust of the person would take a hit and I would make it clear that my work e-mail is off limits. If it happened again, I would start rethinking the relationship. And I would start thinking my SO is a complete jackass for disrespecting my explicit request for privacy, which would pretty much put the relationship on the fast track to oblivion.
Sex and age, please.
Female, 40.
To address the OP generally, I think anyone’s conversations with their BFF is off limits to the SO. And I agree that if a sneak learns something bad by sneaking, tough shit.
Why in HELL does Sneak have LL’s work email password? That’s a huge violation of just about any company’s security policies. So no, wouldn’t do it, and would never have him in the position of being ABLE to do it. LL needs his/her butt kicked just for this fact and this fact alone.
No.
Grave invasion.
Depends. If it were early in the relationship, probably. After 13 years of marriage and counting? Probably not.
Female, 40, and an IT professional, in case you hadn’t guessed.
Absolutely not. It would never cross my mind. I’ve been mildly uncomfortable when my wife has asked me to intentionally get into her personal email to retrieve something for her.
Not that I know of, and I highly doubt it.
I would consider it a grave invasion, for a variety of reasons.
3A. I doubt it would end the relationship. I know my wife, and I can’t imagine her doing anything like that without believing she had a VERY good reason. Of course, if we were having a problem serious enough for her to do something like that, then there are other issues with the relationship at that point.
Short version is that while Sneak is not directly employed by the company, he/she had been contracted with to do web site revisions which necessitated having password access to the hosting site–consequently access to the master email account, which is where the snooping took place. I’m not sure whether this makes Sneak’s actions more or less culpable, since there’s an element of abused trust re the company as well as abused trust re LL and the relationship.
Oh, and the big kick in the pants now transfers to whoever should have been responsible for changing that password once Sneak no longer had legitimate reason to have it.
Nope. None of my business, and I wouldn’t fuck with my SO’s work account. I work for a place that takes security seriously and I know breeches like this could lead to termination.
It can’t happen. I’m absolutely positive of this.
I actually wouldn’t really care if he read my email, work or personal, as long as it doesn’t lead to me being fired and it’s not because he thinks I’m keeping big secrets from him.
Female, 30.
Also, I have to say:
is total bullshit. Couple issues have a shared privacy. I would be upset if my SO shared details of our arguments with his friends, and it wouldn’t make a damn difference if they were BFF. To vent about behaviors is one thing, but to expect Sneak to surrender his privacy to someone whom the matter is none of their business is absurd, disrespectful, and demeaning. Sneak’s a jerk for snooping, but LL is a jerk for demanding this.
I don’t know, it would kind of depend on the the shape the relationship was in otherwise. But there sure as hell would be no argument/accusation about the contents of the e-mail; there would be no way to discuss the contents that didn’t come right back around to “how dare you snoop through my e-mail???”
I’m of the same mind. I’ve seen stuff in friends’ e-mail accounts semi-accidentally (‘Oh, oops. He’s still logged in. Huh. What’s this? Interesting… Okay, I’d better log out now’) but would never, ever mention it to them even if it could be used against them. The one time I came across something accidentally on my SO’s computer (a half-naked photo of an ex) I deleted it but then confessed later on, not in an argument but out of guilt. Still not sure if what I did was 100% wrong… probably should start my own thread.
FWIW, I vent through e-mail all the time, though it does come with some risk (see: the thread about accidentally hitting ‘reply all’ on a personal e-mail). Sometimes I’m just ranting, so using that against me would be like using a private phone call.
The shorthand:
No.
No.
Grave invasion.
Well if it was out of pure curiosity I probably would never find out that he’d done it. If he went snooping to confirm suspicions and found something he didn’t like, we have other problems. But trust issues would likely make up a huge chunk of them.
Fair enough, and in most cases I’d agree. However, the dynamic between Sneak and LL has a lot in common with an abusive situation with isolation techniques being practiced. LL uses BFF as a reality check to make sure Sneak isn’t playing head games and to keep lines of communication open to the outside world. This is not news to Sneak, who has copped to the anger issues in the past and has been advised that there are sometimes more important factors than privacy. LL and Sneak have been trying for quite some time to work out these issues but recently several things have come to a head and the snooping aspect is just one fabulous new manifestation of ongoing problems.
