Investigating Trump, post-Mueller

The Attorneys General of Maryland and the District of Columbia are still on the case: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/428336-prosecutors-subpoena-financial-documents-from-trumps-scotland-golf

And the Manhattan DA: NYT: Manhattan DA looking at criminal charges against Trump Organization | CNN Politics

And there are lots o’ other lawsuits: List of lawsuits involving Donald Trump - Wikipedia

And of course the Democratic House will not be twiddling its thumbs.

This is a thread to discuss these and other efforts to hold the President accountable under the rule of law.

Ok I predict he’ll win 2020 and by the time he gets out of office will be so old and infeeble the state won’t waste their time, it will all wash away. He’s Won.

The Trumps have been fighting the legal system since the era of Fred Trump. I think it’s factored into the business model.

I think it’s fantasy to believe that a sitting president is going to be criminally prosecuted at either the federal or state level.

Butina: A Guide to Every Known Investigation of the NRA

Trump Foundation: https://thehill.com/policy/finance/392323-new-york-ags-office-trump-foundation-warrants-investigation-by-fec-irs

1MDB: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/03/1mdb-trump-ally-elliot-broidy-tries-to-get-75-million-to-end-us-probe.html

Inauguration funding: A third government body just subpoenaed Donald Trump’s inaugural committee | Salon.com

Unknown whether it lead to any further investigations but Israel: https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/mueller-could-have-more-russia-his-mind

Wikileaks: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/16/doj-mistakenly-reveals-indictment-against-wikileaks-julian-assange.html

Cambridge Analytica: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/15/us/cambridge-analytica-federal-investigation.html

Deutsche Money Laundering: Deutsche Bank Offices Are Raided In Money Laundering Probe : NPR

Yeah, it’s a political war, I got that.

The whole basis for the seriousness of the major investigation panned out to nothing, so the engine of war churns on. Just glad the election was legitimate.

Speculative:

The “unnamed foreign nationally owned business” case was liable to either refer to Gazprom or Saudi Aramco. Given that Mueller has called the Russia case, that makes Aramco a slightly more likely option.

Hatred:

Big cash handout:
https://www.arabianbusiness.com/aramco-planning-at-least-10-energy-deals-during-trump-visit-674294.html

Oh yeah baby:
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-updates-trump-tweets-saudi-aramco-nyse-htmlstory.html

Questions raised:

Whether Trump was guilty of collusion or not, the election was always legitimate just on the basis that American elections are such a big spectacle that the barrier for entry is so high as to make outside involvement effectively impossible. Even if we assume that Russia managed to get 5X the payout from their strategies (which is unlikely), they spent like $1m on interference in the campaign. The parties spent a few hundred million, and the American press gave Trump something like $10b worth in free coverage, just through their hatred of his non-PCness.

CNN did more for Trump than Russia ever did.

There are 17 Trump investigations. However several are probably closed now that the special counsel is done, or they’ll be picked up by other districts.

Democrats have a list of 85 topics they want to investigate.

So the investigations continue.

One thing I don’t get is why Mueller was wishy washy on obstruction of justice. That seemed like a pretty solid case.

Well, it’s more of a pro-transparency movement. Personally, I don’t care much about whether Trump is or is not liable to legal punishment in the long run for sleazy stuff he’s done. I just think we have a right to know about sleazy stuff he’s done.

We should be able to see the tax returns. We should be able to know about the activities of the Trump Organization vis-a-vis foreign policy and lobbyists. We should be able to know what actually happened with the Trumps’ various “charitable” organizations and financial ventures and how they intertwine with their political activities. We should be able to know whether Trump associates violated campaign finance rules. And we should be able to know the ways in which responsible governance, such as appointing qualified people to unfilled administration posts, has been abandoned in favor of backscratching and dealmaking for private gain.

This is not about a partisan “political war”. This is about Trump being a known con artist and grifter of long standing (as most Republicans probably would have enthusiastically agreed back in the early 2000’s when Trump self-identified as a Democrat). In his campaign he did a lot of posturing about “draining the swamp” in Washington. But two years in, the White House has become notoriously swampier, with a secretive and haphazard management style involving an endless string of shady cronies and underqualified “palace favorites” who get brought on board with laudatory tweets and subsequently leave in embarrassing disgrace and/or disdain.

If you don’t mind living with that kind of shamelessly oligopolistic banana-republic-lite setup, that’s up to you. But you shouldn’t pretend that anybody who wants it properly and thoroughly investigated is just being a partisan shit-stirrer.

I think this is likely.

It seems that he disagreed. Do you think your judgement is superior to his on this matter?

The 22-month special counsel probe led to charges against 37 defendants, which included six Trump associates, 26 Russians and three Russian companies. Seven defendants have pleaded guilty, and one, Trump’s former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, was convicted at trial.

While Mueller’s investigation is over, several criminal investigations are still ongoing.

They relate to an alleged Russian conspiracy to blast political propaganda across Americans’ social media networks; Manafort’s political colleague from Russia, Konstantin Kilimnik; and what Manafort’s deputy and a central Trump political player, Rick Gates, knows, according to court records.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/24/politics/mueller-report-release/index.html

Good thing the election was “legitimate”, though. :wink:

I’ve never seen so many Americans so upset to find out that their president is *not *a traitor.

Do you recall how upset they were when they found out he was their President?

Well, then being an incompetent makes it better…

Not.

I’m not upset, but I didn’t expect the investigation to determine otherwise.

The most plausible scenario was always that Trump had been compromised at some point - engaging in money laundering with Russian or Ukrainian mafia, having sex with prostitutes without doing an age-check in St. Petersburg, etc. Collusion was never (for me) the issue, but nor would I expect any success on the part of American counter-intelligence to reveal conclusive proof of the existence of blackmail materials (nor collusion).

From watching his activities on the world stage, it’s hard to explain how this announcement:

Doesn’t follow exactly from this meeting the prior day:

Timing-wise, there’s no other thing to explain the decision that I’m aware of.

There’s nothing to explain a universe where the President of the United States gets onto global television with the President of Russia and denounces the abilities of his own intelligence services, except being compromised.

I would hope for evidence that Trump is a traitor not because it would make me happy that he’s a traitor, but because it would allow us to deal with the issue that there have been a number of very bizarre moves which he has made that really have no explanation, even from the view of Trump’s transactionalist/deal chasing approach to politics and accepting that he’s sort of stupid and rash in his decision making, other than that he has been compromised by various sources - likely all of the way from Russia, to Israel, to Saudi Arabia, to Kim Kardashian.

Right now, the government functions relatively well and properly in defense of the national interest, on the basis that the Senate appoints most of the top positions to government. The system is designed to be robust against stupid Presidents.

But, given eight years, Trump is liable to wear them down and slowly work on advancing people like Whitaker up the ladder. He’s a lot more able to make surprise announcements like “We’re withdrawing from Syria!” and force it through, because he’s been able to get all of the Whitakers in government up into the upper-echelons. Not necessarily corrupt, but stupid enough to go along with stupid policy. Of course, there will be some corrupt ones as well.

The ability for a compromised President to work against the interests of the country grow stronger the longer an amount of time that he is in office. Minus evidence, we have to allow that to continue and hope that the Democrats won’t nominate some complete moron to compete against him. Given history, I expect Gillibrand to come up top and she’s really just seems to be young Hillary Clinton. Trump has already beaten Hillary Clinton - I’m not terribly hopeful on that front.

I hope that he’s prosecuted for crimes - whether it be treason or money laundering - not because it makes me happy to have had such a person as President, but because it saves the country. Even if we assume that he’s not compromised and that his actions in aid of Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Kim Kardashian all make sense from whatever ignorant part of his mind it is that chose all of those discrete actions, well…a President too stupid to work to American advantage is just as well as calling compromised even if it’s just that he’s simply just that stupid. We still need to be saved and the political process isn’t a very reliable one for that. And where collusion and blackmail are nigh-impossible to prove, bank fraud is eminently provable. Mueller’s investigation was able to kick off investigations of further crimes, and that works for me. I don’t care whether Mueller himself follows up on those tangents or others do, so long as they’re all traced to their ends.