Iran Obama's 'only chance of success'

Great Debates
101

Ah, so now we don’t just have ninjas in Iran, but they’re actively killing innocent people. Damn those ninjas.

Of course, the link you provided only mentions “covert operations against Iran to destabilize the country’s religious leadership, gather intelligence about Iran’s suspected nuclear-weapons program and support the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. It also includes the capture and assassination of targeted “high value Al Queda targets” located within Iranian Borders”

Still no killing of innocents, but maybe we should check with Ninja Command?

102

I said there were zillions of links detailing our meddling in other countries internal affairs.
I provided only one.
specific to the topic it mentioned.

what? you want me to think for you, spoon feed you too??
provide all truth in one sentence for you…?
don’t think you would believe even then, even it it were so possible.
sorry

103

Thank you, but no. I have a fondness for paragraphs.

104

and what i aspire to, leaves you cold, unflinching, right?
mainly pure thought and emotion, entwined, neither claiming ascendancy over the other.
Sentence structure practically irrelevant.

much more important, a fondness for truth, no matter how you have to tell of it, no matter what format.
Actually, i prefer Zen, but if you don’t understand me now, Zen would only confuse you further. therefore no point pursing it huh? a pity…
There are no paragraphs, no sentences,
all is thought and emotion,
meanwhile, back to the substance of Justification for war.
try this

excerpt.
IA domestic ops go far beyond Shahzad probe

People upset about the CIA’s involvement in domestic interrogations might be surprised to learn that the spy agency’s most explosive growth in recent years has been right here in the USA – not in the back alleys of Karachi or in the mountains of Afghanistan.

According to some insider estimates, most of the CIA’s recruitment of foreign spies now takes place in the United States. Hundreds of CIA officers working out of cover offices and companies in areas where foreign students and scientists abound – such as Boston, Los Angeles, Silicon Valley and the like – try to make contact with their marks and send them back home as spies.

Advocates say it’s a lot easier, and safer, than trying to recruit agents in places like China, under the scrutiny of Beijing’s secret police and counterspy service, not to mention in places like the Middle East and Pakistan.

But the strategy has its critics, too, especially former CIA operations officers who say the spy agency is playing it too safe – and not delivering the goods to U.S. commanders who need strong intelligence in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan.

“In response to criticism that more than 90 percent of its officers live and work entirely within the United States, and that the remainder work within American embassies, the CIA periodically promises to get more officers under cover, on the street, in foreign countries,” a former CIA officer who uses the pseudonym Ishmael Jones told me in April.

But it doesn’t, he maintains.

article continues.
basically how active the CIA is at home on American soil as it is destabalising foreign GOVTS.
You extremely happy yet as to how ‘safe’ you are?

Zan

105

Yah, that’s the thing you might want to work on in a medium where communication is 100% written.

106

not at all, it gets much much worse, or better, depending upon how you look at it…
I often write in Haiku,
as i understand it of course.
Get shot to pieces for that too, by ppl who simply don’t want to understand, nor care…
or are simple unable to.
which applies to you?

I like the abstract,
where you can deal with pain, like its a fluid medium, like blood,
life, saturated in it. and death.
flows around you, and if you let it, thro you.

In this case, which i am trying to address, the pain we inflict upon the ME.
Pick your country, we decimate them all, no prejudice.
all are accessible to cruise missiles, Predator drones…
Nukes if you have to, self preservation of course, perfectly acceptable, of course.

How about you address just one, of many, of the questions I have asked.
which you seem to choose to ignore…
why?

here is just one of many I have posted.
What will it take you to oppose the war/s we wage?
if they start drafting you?
will that do it?

I asked this before, no one replied…
why?

my basic argument as i 1st stated it, has not changed.

The US needs to stop killing ppl, stop tying to dominate, exert its will over all others.

Back to the start.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/story-e6freonf-1225853431215
Iran Obama’s ‘only chance of success’

IRANIAN President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said overnight that Iran was the “only chance” for his US counterpart Barack Obama to succeed after the crises Washington has faced in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Mr Ahmadinejad also said that he is currently drafting a letter to Mr Obama which will be “published in due time”.

“Mr Obama has only one chance and that is Iran. This is not emotional talk but scientific. He has but one place to say that ‘I made a change and I turned over the world equation’ and that is Iran,” Mr Ahmadinejad said in a live interview on state television.

"He has but one chance to stay as head of the state and succeed. Obama cannot do anything in Palestine. He has no chance. What can he do in Iraq? Nothing. And Afghanistan is too complicated.

“The best way for him is to accept and respect Iran and enter into co-operation. Many new opportunities will be created for him.”

Seems simple enough, get off the high horse of the power of all your weapons.
sit down and talk…

Zanthor

107

No need frothing at me; I thought I’d made it clear I thought the Iraq war was a stupid thing.

The escalation was necessary since we were already there. It remains to be seen whether us going in the first place was a good idea.

Ah yes…because Iran doesn’t do that at all.

Now whose view of the trees is obscured?

Did you just compare modern-day Iran with Nazi Germany? Is that meant to support your argument of Iran as a “moderate” country?

Nope.

Walt Kelly.

I predict the US will do nothing but talk and impose economic sanctions. Bombing or invading Iran would only inflame the hardliners - Obama knows this even if Bush didn’t - and would raise the price of oil dramatically. As long as Iran doesn’t actively provoke conflict, it won’t happen.

And Israel has shown itself capable of bombing place all on its own.

Again, the US will not invade. It may prop up a questionable government (see: Musharraf) to ensure a “friendly” administration but they don’t want to run the place outright.

108

war escalation is not ever and never was nor is necessary.
If i was you i would hang my head in shame, impale myself on the nearest piercing object in abject humility,
not that it would help much, but it would show you care about their deaths, directly caused by us, and it would be gesture of accountability.
acceptance of how the West stuffed up.

That we could be human enough to accept any portion, however small, of the huge blame that is directly attributed to us…
it would be more honorable than continuing the slaughter of innocents.
claiming righteousness.

No I actually compared the US foreign policy to Nazi Germany.
end result the same, no matter how you want to dress it up in niceness of ‘freedom’
your whole county ablaze with energy consumption, the rest of the world strangely dark and quiet…
Is this Kindergarten? when the basic truths need to be explained, as if they are not already glaringly and painfully obvious?

quote.
And Israel has shown itself capable of bombing place all on its own.
end quote…

sure, with the US’s tactic approval AND with weapons supplied by the US…
this is all ‘kosher’ to you?
its what need to be done.
no regrets? at all?

109

You are free to do whatever you wish to express your personal feelings.

You are not free to post hateful and insulting remarks in this forum.

Back off.

[ /Moderating ]

110

Did Iran provide any support to the Talibans recently?

While the Talibans were in power they consistently supported armed opposition to them in south-western Afghanistan. :confused:

111

Before 2001, Iran was an enemy of the Taliban, but recently, there have been reports that the Taliban have Iranian arms and even are training Taliban fighters in Iran itself.

112

Not hateful at all.
Just an honest observation, from the heart, no malice intended at all.
I already told you, I despise hatred,
I think the correct term is ‘fall on your sword’
in this case in abject apology.
atonement, accountability, etc etc, meant figuratively, NOT literally!!!

IE go to them thar enemy, say, we stuffed up, what can we do for you ( NOT TO YOU ) to help set things right?.
Its called Humility, Compassion, Empathy.
Look these simple things up.

I honestly think this would help appease the hatred we have provoked. from the enemies we create.

BTW, some basic guidelines.
When I say "we’ I mean the West generally, Not me, nor you personally,

When I say ‘you’ I mean your particular country, whatever and whichever it is, your foreign policy…
why on Earth would i mean you personally, did you personally sell $zillions weapons all over the world? etc etc, invade whole countries all by yourself???
Sheez
News Flash, its NOT about you or me personally,
Most of us are simply onlookers, carers, or… ( fill in the gaps here as the cap fits )
Which exactly are you?,

Zanthor

113

What really matters?
Our wishing to keep our boot at Iran’s neck? tighten the stranglehold?
or at least attempt to act with at least a pretense of a degree of decency?

Take the Deal, Mr. President

http://www.creators.com/opinion/pat-buchanan.html

excerpt.
If Barack Obama is sincere in his policy of “no nukes in Iran — no war with Iran,” he will halt this rude dismissal of the offer Tehran just made to ship half its stockpile of uranium to Turkey.

Consider what President Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollah himself have just committed to do.

Iran will deliver 1,200 kilograms, well over a ton, of its 2-ton stockpile of low-enriched uranium (LEU) to Turkey. In return, Iran will receive, in a year, 120 kilograms of fuel rods for its U.S.-built reactor that produces medical isotopes for treating cancer patients.

Not only did Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey and President Lula da Silva of Brazil put their prestige on the line by flying to Tehran, the deal they got is a near-exact replica of the deal Obama offered Iran eight months ago.

Why is President Obama slapping it away? Does he not want a deal? Has he already decided on the sanctions road that leads to war?
snip.
To the world today, the United States appears enraged that Iran is responding to America’s own offer, that it is we who do not want a peaceful resolution, that we and the Israelis are as hell-bent on war and “regime change” in Iran as George W.
Bush was on war and regime change in Iraq.

While the Brazilians and Turks have surely complicated Hillary’s diplomacy, their motives are not necessarily sinister or malevolent.
article continues…

Pigs, three different ones, all hell bent on control, manipulation of public consent, manufacturing consent for war…
( see. Pink Floyd, same title )

Zan

114

Here are some better guidelines:
Don’t post in cryptic phrases that can be construed to mean many different things. Think about what you are trying to say to a wide and diverse audience and use complete sentences with specific nouns to convey those thoughts with the least possible confusion.

115

If I wanted to talk with Pat Buchanan (I really don’t) I’d go find somewhere that he’s posting. I’m not quite sure why you’re providing his subjective opinion, anyway, except that perhaps he writes in complete sentences which are organized into paragraphs.

Of course, this nonsense is making the rounds but it’s hollow and laughable. The IAEA has repeatedly said that as long as Iran stonewalls it and refuses to cooperate, there is no way that we can verify non-diversion of nuclear materials or the absence of a weapons program. Sending out some of the declared nuclear material does nothing about that issue, and is nothing but a PR offensive. And one that, strangely, some folks seem to be unable to get enough of… even though it has nothing, at all, to do with the issues that are actually under discussion.

116

Qoute Here are some better guidelines:
Don’t post in cryptic phrases that can be construed to mean many different things. Think about what you are trying to say to a wide and diverse audience and use complete sentences with specific nouns to convey those thoughts with the least possible confusion.
end quote.

Guidelines?
Nouns?
next you will be asking me to choose sides and i simply cannot, will not.

Confusion?
you think why we wage war upon the whole ME NOT confusing?
why should confusion be excluded???
Guidelines…
is that like read YOUR instructions when all else fails?
to play in your game?
otherwise access denied, sorry,

Guidelines entrap, constrict.
What I write is meant to be cryptic.
for me its Zen.
you either see it or you don’t.
understand or not.
its all ok, you are were you are meant to be, right here, right now.
I write to probe thought, help encourage Empathy…

its meant to be a search for understanding.
You think Enlightenment should be a given?
or hungered for, searched for…?
just curious is all…
Besides, I write on multiple layers,
OUR side and theirs ( as i imagine it of course )

each one, each Soul on this planet valid, has a right to exist, valid all on its own,
we should not just kill them, just cos they are different…
Kapeche.?

You want to try addressing the topic and not continue to make it all about you and me?
how you decide how i should think and write,… to to plz you?
be acceptable to you?

Zanthor

117

sorry, my mistake

118

Here is a funny thing.
Pat Buchanan, like Bill O’Rielly, are virtually unheard of by mainstream public news sources. here down under.
Think maybe we have heard their name mentioned, somewhere, not really important tho… easily dismissed.

I had zero knowledge that Pat Buchanan was Conservative.
I read his post ( that I linked to ) it seemed perfectly sound, reasonable,
Obamba cannot have it both ways.

Read, ‘take the deal’
which to me seemed dammed good advice.
…
now, if he is actually Conservative, which i understand in America, means pro war, then what is he on about?
Taking a liberal stance just to throw dirt on Obamba…?
what gives, pray tell…?

if you can explain the intricacies of what appears as ‘bait and switch’, or smoke and mirrors, of American politics, i would appreciate it.

Thanx in advance

Zan

119

you really believe you are fighting a few half assed warlords!! :smiley:

Karzai’s brother is THE biggest drug warlord. You PAY these warlords!!

The Afghani’s hate the USA period. Not just a few half ass warlords, the entire country hate the USA.

The year the Taliban were in power there was zero poppy cultivation!!

120

Again your claims are totally divorced from reality.

Yet again, another one of your claims has nothing to do with reality.
In 1999 provinces under the Taliban’s control accounted for 75% of the world’s opium supply. And before 2000, quite aside from opposing the opium trade, the Taliban allowed it and taxed it to provide revenue. And, of course, the Afghani population overwhelmingly rejected the Taliban and supported US intervention.

It seems you need a more accurate source to gain information about the subjects you’re talking about. suggest not using whatever the one is that you’re currently using…ever again. But what do I know, everybody knows that Americans who don’t get their information from Iran’s official propaganda network simply can’t accept truth.