Well, that’s odd AnnaLucretia. I’m sorta dyslexic and I read your screen name as AnalSecretia…I really did (but I’d also just finished reading a post by Anal Scurvy so…). Funny old world.
Anyway, bottoms up !
London_Calling , that’s a first… and now I see it that way too…
Thanks ever so much…
*Originally posted by Coldfire *
**Hemlock, Sinn Fein is the political branch of the IRA, but it does not EQUAL the IRA. **
You’ve lost me already. If it’s the political branch of the IRA, it must uphold the policies of the IRA. The word “branch” (I think “wing” is often used) means “part of” or “extension of”.
**Over the last years, Sinn Fein have been involved in disarming that very same IRA. **
Not sure. They’ve sought to assure people the IRA is disarming, or sought to excuse IRA foot-dragging. But this is my point - the party is the political arm of an unconstitutionally armed movement that has a history of killing innocent people. And apparently intelligent Dopers are blithely saying they’re voting for it.
**I’ll leave it to you to prove an organised connection between the IRA and Colombian terrorists (guerrillas, actually) exists. Just because four Paddies and an ounce of Semtex were caught doesn’t mean it’s an organised situation. **
OK - let’s say they were bird-watching…
**I’d imagine the Irish vote for Sinn Fein mainly because of their views towards what they still consider English occupation of the Northern part of the Republic of Ireland. **
This is what shocks me. I can’t believe Irish voters put this above schools, crime, inflation, jobs, health care etc. So are Irish dopers who are voting for Sinn Fein consciously voting for the political wing of an armed movement? Or do they consider Sinn Fein a regular political party? I can only assume the latter. In which case, do they regard the IRA link as unfortunate, embarrassing, a quirk of history, or what?
[inflammatory] If they were New Yorkers, would they vote for a mayoral candidate belonging to the political arm of Al-Qaeda? [/inflammatory]
That Al Qaeda analogy right there tells me enough, Hemlock. You are obviously not knowledgable enough on the Northern Ireland matter. Read up on your history and contemporary politics, and get back to us with a decently worded Great Debate.
Think of it this way: I just made sure you don’t look like a complete fool.
Maybe we should not vote for them at all. Let their cousins with guns speak for republicans. That would be better wouldn’t it 
Anyhoo Sein Fein are not going to get into Gov. but at a local level they could very well put some pressure on the centre to right wingers that are there at the moment.
They are also the only party standing across the border. The more they are involved in politics the more they have to loose if the peace process breaks down.
They are involved in these things. Martin McGuinness is the Minister for Education in NI for example.
I must admit my jaw dropped slightly at jjimm’s claim that Sinn Féin are the only party striving for a united Ireland. I mean, well, blimey, there’s at least two in Northern Ireland, is there no equivalent of the SDLP down in the south?
jjimm+Twisty, I presume the nazi scum wasn’t our favourite Corkonian midget schoolteacher racist as she’s standing in Dublin South Central and the other candidates mentioned are standing in Dublin Central.
BTW, if you have any preference whatsoever for one candidate over another, even if it is moderate racist over hardline racist or some such, you should continue your preferences. Your vote becoming untransferrable does nothing to aid the less distasteful one. Of course, if after your first couple of preferences, you reckon they’re all as bad as each other, there’s no point continuing. So Pergau, you would do more damage to the FF candidates by voting down the card and putting them last than by not expressing a preference. Even if the Green and some of the others get elected, your vote could transfer as part of their surplus.
Hemlock, I would second what yojimbo said about people’s motivations for voting Sinn Fein. In my case I voted for them because of my support for their stance on the national question but people outside of Ireland might be surprised at how small an issue the North is in southern general elections. Local issues are a huge factor in garnering support for SF - they have been very active in working class communities, particularly in the areas of social services, health, education and drugs. SF have figured highly in the voting patterns of Irish Dopers but, to give some perspective for others, they are unlikely to take more than 5 or 6 seats out of 166 (still a big improvement on the 1 they have at the moment).
Also, SF were unelectable in the south before the peace process. Now that the ‘war is over’ (fingers crossed and all that), they do stand a chance of becoming a serious political force down here.
this is where the problem starts. Its not exactly the political wing of the IRA, considering Sinn Fein where in existence before the IRA was. While I won’t deny that there is links between the two, I firmly believe that Sinn Fein is 100% committed to the peace process.
The IRA are on ceasefire, and have had 2 acts of decommissioning in the last year. Which is 2 more than any of the Loyalist groups, FYI. they have stood by each point of the GFA.
Sinn Fein are a party devoted to peace. I believe this. If I honestly didn’t believe this, I wouldn’t support them.
Aside for the 32 county issue, Sinn Fein have a long history of working for the community they are elected to represent. They have a large grass roots following based on what they have achieved in the community.
No, because If you had bothered to read the manifesto, you would see that Sinn Fein speak a lot about Health, education, housing, crime. Everything you would expect to hear from a political party.
Once again, I am asking you to not jump to assumptions about a situation you are far removed from.
And if they are found guilty, I fully support them recieving a prison term.
This is the new Godwin’s Law, wether you intended it as such or not.
As for the IRA’s history, here is where things will vary wildly from one person to another.
I do not believe that there is a single reason for guns in politics any more. Where as once there was a reason for the IRA, I dont see there being one now.
I hate to say it Steve, but there is no equivalent to the SDLP in the Republic.
Great. the nazi fuckwits are multiplying.
Aint Irish politics grand.
Can’t even have a thread about the Election without a slight disagreement about the North. Float in off to the North Sea thats what I say 
The SDLP are very moderately left wing (hence the Social Democrat bit). They are also moderately nationalist. The southern Labour party wouldn’t be a million miles away from them.
Steve, pretty much all of the southern parties support a united Ireland (at some stage, subject to consent, in an ideal world, in the context of wider european integration, when the swallows fly back to Capistrano - kinda like the SDLP).
No-one was talking about the north in the general election campaign. It got less than a minute in the leaders’ TV debate. Not much chance of that here;).
Midget Nazi’s !
[sub] If anyone says[/sub] Band Name!,[sub] I’ll fucking deck them[/sub]
That’s kind of more what I thought. I mean, I don’t expect that Irish politicians’ entire lives revolve around kicking the Brits out of the North, but jjimm’s comment seemed to imply that it had ceased to be an issue to anyone except the hard-liners - which I found surprising.
yojimbo, what’s the North Sea ever done to you, that you should wish the likes of Ian Paisley on it?
I don’t have a vote in general elections (although I did do some canvassing for Sinn Féin). If I did have a vote, it would go as follows:
- Nicky Kehoe (Sinn Féin)
- Joe Costelloe (Labour)
- Tony Gregory (Independent, but a strong leftwinger and seemingly decent guy).
And that’s it.
Why vote Sinn Féin? Because they are the only party standing candidates that is (1) republican (2) left and (3) pro-GFA (in fact I think they’re the only party that even meets the first two criteria, at least they are in my constituency). And those are the things that matter to me, politically.
As for whether they’re the only pro-UI party, well, some people might disagree with that. Fianna Fáil have plastered posters all over the area that read: “Fianna Fáil: The Republican Party”. However, one of the leaflets I received from them (I’m on the register because I do have a vote in local elections) had Bertie saying: "This is what republicanism means to me … " and then he went on about loads of things that have nothing whatsoever to do with republicanism. I think we should sue them for false advertising, personally.
I’m feeling pretty good about SF’s chances - I reckon three seats are a cert and wouldn’t be surprised at all if they pick up five.
But, I have to say out of the realistic possibilities I really am hoping to see a FF-Labour coalition. Ruairi Quinn as Tánaiste would be a damn sight better than Mary Harney as far as my own personal situation (work permit indentured servant) goes.
Yes. In fact, one of the benefits of proportional representation is that I get to vote for every party that sees fit to field a candidate in Dublin South.
Sinn Fein didn’t get my first preference (which went as usual to Labour), nor my last (Fianna Fail) but I did vote for them. So, apparently, did quite a lot of other people. I think it would be a mistake to assume that SF voters in the Republic are in general sectarian or supportive of violence.
As for a southern equivalent of the SDLP, the Labour Party is considered a sister party of the SDLP.
at least by themselves, if not by anyone else.
The results are coming through soon… latest polls are showing Sinn Fein to take at least 3 seats.
Thanks you guys. As someone with a developing interest in Ireland, and things Irish, I’ve found this thread enlightening.
Now, if someone could explain how the balance of power between your president and Taoiseach works, I’d be appreciative. I’m also curious about the structure of your Parliament. As I understand, the Taoiseach, as one of his powers appoints, 11(?) members to the upper body of Parliament, the Seanad Eireann, right? How are the remaining members selected? The lower body, the Dail Eireann, is selected proportionally by party, from the popular vote, correct?
And finally, where can I find information on the politcal parties themselves. The Sinn Fein link provided above was quite informative.
And this represents an increase over Sinn Fein’s current count, right?
Uncle Beer, this site has basic information about the structure of Ireland’s government and here are links to all the parties’ home pages.
In the last Dáil Sinn Féin held only one seat (Monaghan/Cavan). That one is safe; they’ve already won in Dublin South-West and official confirmation that they’ve won in Kerry North is just minutes away. Additionally they seem to be on course to win seats in Louth and Dublin South-Central.
Fine Gael are getting absolutely thrashed. Unfortunately, the PDs are doing a lot better than Labour.