In another thread I mentioned that I’m interested in psychology. This will mean taking post-baccalaureate undergrad classes for prerequisites, then going through the Masters program and the Ph.D. program (often times are bundled together)…
I’ll be turning 40 next February… is this worth it? I’d like to be a clinical psychologist but I don’t want to end up spending the entirety of my career paying off student loans, you know? I’m still kind of doing the what-ifs stage of the game.
Anyone here start a degree-intensive career later in life? Did it go well? Were you disappointed? What is your advice?
I realize that some of the programs offer a stipend and a tuition waiver–one would hope I could get into a program like that, but they seem competitive. I graduated with an undergraduate BA summa cum laude with a 4.0 GPA… problem is my major was art so it’s unlikely to impress unless I can spin some sort of “art therapy” angle in an amazing application essay…
I don’t know. I just like turning to the teeming millions for opinions since there’s just so dang many of you with so many dang life experiences that I always feel like I get my money’s worth out of stirring my poking stick around.
Thanks in advance for your opinions. Please let me know what sort of late-entry careers you have managed to get into ad how they’re working out.
My mother started a graduate program in psychology when she was just around that age, earned her PhD, and went on to a rewarding career, which she is still involved in at age 70+, so I’d say, no, you are never too old.
You’re never too old. (My grandmother earned her master’s at 80.) You will be 50 whether or not you go to grad school, so you might as well do it if that’s what you want.
However. There are an awful lot of grad students out there, grad school apparently gets more miserable and more expensive every year, then you have to do clinicals and internships and I don’t even know what, and there are lots of psychologists.
I’d advise you to be very clear on the difficulties of grad school and all that; I think far too many people go into it with rose-colored glasses on. But if that’s what you truly want to do, then do it.
If by “is it worth it”, you mean from a purely financial point of view, then almost certainly not. Even if the PhD increases your earning power (it probably won’t, significantly), that’s offset by the many years you’ll spend earning almost nothing to get it, and starting at 40, you won’t have as many years of the increased earning power as a traditional student would.
From a point of view of personal fulfillment, though, sure, go for it. You’re never too old to learn.
Chronos is correct, if it’s for financial reasons you really have to crunch numbers carefully to make sure that you will come out ahead.
But if it’s a matter of doing something 'cause you love the subject and you want to learn more, it’s money WELL spent. Learning because you have a desire to educate yourself on that subject is always money well spent.
Getting any degree to increase your earning power or change careers, at 40? Well that can be done but you better seriously do the number crunching and include all sorts of surprise contingencies
I’m 42 and just finished my first year of my law degree.
I will not make enough money to have a positive return on investment, I don’t think, particularly if you count time spent, but so what? I am driven to do this, and the journey is it’s own reward. I’m paying for the journey.
Nope you are too old to learn, don’t try.
Now how do you feel? You have to agree at some level or you would not ask. If the statement bothers you, then go for the degree.
Just make sure you get a full tuition waver PLUS a stipend and health plan while a grad student. If you can’t get accepted to a program with all that guaranteed, that’s an indication that you aren’t good enough to be there.
A PhD is a research degree, even in a field like clinical psychology. They’re not training you in how to be a therapist; they’re training you in how to evaluate different modes of therapy (among other things). As such, they expect you to know a lot coming in, and you’ll probably need to put in a couple years of work to get to the point where you’re a competitive applicant. I’m not in clinical psychology, so I can’t say specifically what you’ll need, but I’ll bet good money that it looks a lot like this list:
[ul]
[li]At least a 3.0 general GPA.[/li][li]GRE scores above 1100. Many schools won’t even read your application if your score is below this cutoff.[/li][li]Good grades in upper level psychology courses.[/li][li]Letters from faculty who honestly believe that you can handle graduate coursework and do research, and are willing to stake their reputation on that claim.[/li][li]A personal statement indicating that you understand what you’re getting into and that you have a good reason for wanting a research degree.[/li][li]Lab experience.[/li][/ul]
You should read this essay on one person’s experience getting into one of the top psychology programs in the world with nothing but a mediocre undergraduate GPA. That’s a pretty good characterization of what you have to do, but at the same time it shows that it is possible.
Two comments:
[ol]
[li]This is the absolute God’s honest truth. If they actually want you, they’ll pay for you. And you don’t want to be in a program where they don’t really want you.[/li][li]If you take offense to a stranger on a message board pointing out that you might not be good enough, how will you cope when–not if–one of your professors tells you that you aren’t good enough?[/li][/ol]
My experience is on the more technical side–engineering and hard sciences, but I think it depends on what you want to do and why you want to do it. If you are doing it because you love it and you want to learn more, then, as said above, you are never too old. If you are doing it as an employment opportunity, then you need to look on return on investment. If you’re 40, assume you will be 45 by the time you get your PhD. My sister is a psychologist and makes a comfortable but not great living. Assuming she’s typical, if you’re doing this with loans, depending on what school you go to, you may be paying student loans into your 50s or even 60s. Given this, do you want to retire in your 60s 70s or never? If you enjoy the work and want to work into old age, then again–plenty of time. If you want to retire relatively young–65-70, I don’t think its worth while. Im 47 and have been offered opportunities to get my PhD and turned them down. I just don’t see the benefit at my age of going through the academic and political hassles involved in getting a PhD.
If your major goal is to be a practicing clinical therapist, you can also consider a MSW (Masters of Social Work) with the relevant practical training for licensing as a therapist in your state (usually 2 years of supervised practice). This is a much shorter route, if clinical practice is your primary goal.
OTOH if your primary goal is a Ph.D-level study of psychology, with clinical practice being more of a neat bonus, you would probably find this unsatisfactory. It wan’t clear from my reading of your OP which part whether advanced education, or the opportunity to practice was you primary goal.
Can you support yourself while you’re doing this? Otherwise, yeah, you’ll have debt, and not an easy time paying it back, especially while planning for retirement. Also, I don’t know anything about your personal life, but studying takes away from all the fun things in life, even the mild fun things like hanging out with your family.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Good luck. I know you weren’t expecting this to be point 3, but I really mean it. Good luck with making the decision, which is a damned hard one, and good luck if you go for it, or if you don’t.
Depends how you plan to use it - I knew a woman in my undergrad days who loved to say “professional student” when asked what she wanted to be “when she grew up”.
Decades later, on a whim (I was spending 6 weeks driving around the country), I looked her up - she was about to:
finally get a PhD (Psychology)
Turn 40
She had been on and around that campus for 17 years, but when it came to finding a job, all of a sudden nobody could remember her number.
She ended up as an assist. prof in TX, and was dead within 10 years.
If you want to start late (you should have at least 1 co-authorship on your cv by 40), you will need to establish up front that you are dead serious about a career. You will also need to bust your ass on class work
From a personal fulfilment view, learning’s a lifelong process and being able to call yourself “Dr. OpalCat” would be pretty cool- but from a financial/practical point of view- probably not. What are you going to do with a Ph.D that isn’t career-based?
Sure, you don’t have to do anything with it at all- but it’s also possible that being that qualified will hurt your career more than helping it, too.
From the sounds of it you’ve already decided to go ahead though, right?
I’d consider a lesser degree that would let me be a therapist, as that is my end goal. And yes I would be able to support myself while in school as my husband will be finishing his residency next year and I wouldn’t start until after that. I finished college late (2 years ago at 37) after taking time off for motherhood. I know I’m a good student as I had a 4.0 and was dedicated to my studies. I did take one psychology class and enjoyed it quite a bit. I’m still in contact with my professor, actually. I’m pretty sure I’d need to take some more undergrad psych courses before pursuing graduate school.
Getting a PhD isn’t about being a good student. It’s about being a good researcher. Your job as an applicant is to convince a group of world-class experts in psychology that you have what it takes to advance the frontiers of human knowledge. Strong grades are necessary, but by no means sufficient.
